How to get into undergrad research

[ZapperZ]

its called lab work because its assigned by a professor for their lab...whether your performing an experiment, collecting data, analyzing data, researching papers or doing simulations. This just isn't a term for physics it goes across all sciences. And from what i remember Numerical Computations are considered labwork, but it might depend on the size of your simulations...ie VR is labwork and so is astrophysics simulations(the doors that say do not enter simulations in progress)
I don't know the size of simulations that you've programmed but some simulations cannot be done on laptops.

I've written a 20-page quantum monte carlo code in C to find the band structure and calculate the activation energy of a catalyst surface used in the petroleum refining industry. It required 1 500 MHz stand-alone computer 2 1/2 days to finish a complete job. Would this be "large" enough for your consideration?

.. and I didn't have a laptop then, but I could have easily run it on my current laptop from a starbucks - I may have to LIVE there and wait for a complete run to end, but that isn't the point, is it?

As for going to starbucks to code yes you can,but only for snippets of code...when you truly want to run your simulation you will need a network or powerful computer setup like sharcnet(from cdn). Sorry the term eludes me because my brain is shutting down.
However you can also do the same thing for experimental work, not the actually implementation but the thought process and analysis. There are very few professors that i knew who wouldn't go for coffee and talk about an experiment.

I'm sure you know that "talking" about an experiment is nowhere near being the same as doing the experiment. Any experimentalist can tell you that (and one is trying to do just that right now).

Also note that some experimental labs also have programmers doing simulations in them...Ie Psych labs where there is VR and Cogsci research..as well as astrophysics labs. Maybe its a countrys terminology but in Canada we just call them labs.

Oh yeah and the term should not be confusing because the term is associated with doing work for a professor.

btw What would you call a computer science/sftware eng professors lab?

I don't really think it makes any difference in calling a physical location a "lab". However, if you equate that as doing an "experimental work", which is the term you used, then I would ask you to show where in the practice of physics such a term is widely used? If you look in either conferences, or even professional journals, that you wish to submit your work, they certainly do not consider "computer simulation" as "experimental work". If no such categories exists (in Particle Accelerator Conference, computer simulation is a category all by itself), then more often than not, computer simulation gets lumped into "theoretical" rather than "experimental" category. I should know, I've run a couple of such conferences where that was done.

If you wish to use that term, that's fine, and I'm not stopping you. I will caution you that your usage of it will create confusion and misunderstanding. If this is not something you care about, then you are more than welcome to ignore my suggestion.

Zz.

 

[neurocomp2003]

20 page code, that's what 32-40 lines of code? 800 lines ...no that's not a lot though you mentioned that the time required to run teh simulation was. A good size project is about 5000-10000 lines of code. But you can see where I'm going...for example take a good factorization code...it can take a good 2wks to run...this is only suitable in a lab setting.

Also I never said that experimental work and computer simulations were equivalent...what I'm trying to say is that your equating the term "lab" with "experimental work" is not true.

I am equating the term "lab" with the professors research, his group and his students and the labwork that they do whether it be experiments, simulations, researching papers...etc.

 

[Vanes63]

Reply to Original Question

While undergraduates in just about any field do not know everything there is to know about any particular area, there is a long ways to go before you know enough to really publish Doctoral-level research (and that is the way it should be, otherwise everyone would get a Ph.D.), I do believe a reasonable amount of research can be conducted by undergraduates.

Research is new information, or possibly old information rehashed, for the researcher it is new and that is what makes it research - I believe. Book reports are not research and neither are surveys of literature, unless I guess you are studying history and some sort of comparative study was being done on existing literature.

I took a Linear Algebra class at another institution that I can completely bored in, I had already taken Modern Algebra and I tutor mathematics, so the material they covered wasn't new to me. BUT, I went to class anyways, and I did miss a lot. Final grade: 99/100 in the course. Some students can do that, not go to class and understand the material. But I'm also getting ready to apply to graduate school and, after doing summer research at other institutions, realize and understand the importance of letters of recommendation and impressing professors.

Somewhere down the line you need people to speak about how dependable you are and how smart you are. If you answer questions in class right all the time, a professor that really cares might recommend for you to go to XYZ summer program or program on campus and become your research mentor, as was my case.

I could have blown off Calculus 2 or 3, Differential Equations, Modern Algebra, or any other course I've taken within the past 3 years. But, and I have classes of less than 10 students, professors really do pay attention to that and take that into consideration when writing letters of recommendation and when you ask them to do research with you.

New professors might be the best bet for you, it might be the way you might want to go. But the way professors see it, if you don't show up to class now, and seeing as past behavior is a good prediction of future behavior, will you show up to research meetings or, later on, your graduate classes?

In math, you have to work hard to find new proofs, or even to prove things that have already been proven to show you have some proofing ability. But, put yourself in your professors shoes, if that new professor asks one of your current professors how you are in class, what do you think the answer will be?

- Vanes.