How to get parameters of interaction between atoms of H2 and C6H6?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around obtaining interaction parameters for the Morse equation between atoms of H2 and C6H6, as referenced in a specific article. Participants are exploring methods to derive these parameters from intermolecular potential data, focusing on theoretical and computational approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to reproduce results from an article and is unsure how to derive atomic interaction parameters from intermolecular data.
  • Another participant suggests that the data in the referenced table pertains to intermolecular potentials and questions how to obtain 1-D Morse potential parameters while excluding the influence of other atoms.
  • A later reply indicates that calculating intermolecular potential requires fixing other parameters and performing a partial minimization, noting that this process is complex and may involve counterpoise methods.
  • One participant describes their own calculations of intermolecular potential and expresses concern about excluding the impact of other atoms in the system.
  • Another participant interprets the authors' approach as an atomistic decomposition of interaction potentials, raising concerns about the assumption of isotropic potentials and the neglect of angular dependence, suggesting this may lead to approximate results.
  • Participants discuss the potential need for counterpoise corrections and the challenges of fitting parameters for different atom types.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods for obtaining interaction parameters and the implications of the authors' assumptions regarding isotropy and angular dependence. There is no consensus on the best approach or the validity of the assumptions made in the original article.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the calculations involve complex methodologies, including the need for partial minimization and potential counterpoise corrections, which may not have been applied in the original article. The discussion highlights the challenges of accurately modeling atomic interactions in molecular systems.

Mikhail_V
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HI, I want to reproduce results from the article (attached).

I need to get parameters of interaction between atoms of H2 and C6H6 for Morse equation.
I easily got results of interation between MOLECULES H2 and C6H6, shown in Table S2 'The first-principles and Morse force field (eq.1)...', but I do not know how to get parameters between ATOMS of H2 and C6H6, shown in Table S4
I used ORCA for my caclulations.
Any suggestions are welcome
 

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The data in table S4 are still for the intermolecular potentials as far as I can see. They are simply giving the 1-D Morse potential parameters for the intermolecular bonds formed in various geometries. See figure S6 for some examples.
 
SpectraCat said:
The data in table S4 are still for the intermolecular potentials as far as I can see. They are simply giving the 1-D Morse potential parameters for the intermolecular bonds formed in various geometries. See figure S6 for some examples.

Thank you for your answer, but how can I repeat these calculations. I mean, how can I get 1-D Morse potential parameters. For example for C_R ---H_A (Table S4) do I need to use specific technique to exclude the influence of other atoms in cluster?
 
Mikhail_V said:
Thank you for your answer, but how can I repeat these calculations. I mean, how can I get 1-D Morse potential parameters. For example for C_R ---H_A (Table S4) do I need to use specific technique to exclude the influence of other atoms in cluster?

No, what you need to do is calculate the intermolecular potential at various points along the specified intermolecular coordinate, with all other intermolecular parameters fixed. You then fit those points to some analytical form .. in this case a Morse potential. Note that calculating the intermolecular potential in this way is non-trivial. You typically should do a partial minimization, where the intermolecular geometry is kept fixed at each desired configuration, but the individual molecular geometries are allowed to relax ... I doubt it matters much in this case, since the potentials seem pretty shallow, but it is usually better to be on the safe side. Furthermore, extracting the intermolecular potential at each point is also non-trivial .. usually this is done by the counterpoise method of Boys and Bernardi. Most molecular structure packages have counterpoise corrections as built-in routines.
 
SpectraCat said:
No, what you need to do is calculate the intermolecular potential at various points along the specified intermolecular coordinate, with all other intermolecular parameters fixed. You then fit those points to some analytical form .. in this case a Morse potential. Note that calculating the intermolecular potential in this way is non-trivial. You typically should do a partial minimization, where the intermolecular geometry is kept fixed at each desired configuration, but the individual molecular geometries are allowed to relax ... I doubt it matters much in this case, since the potentials seem pretty shallow, but it is usually better to be on the safe side.

I calculated the intermolecular potential at various points along the specified intermolecular coordinate (H_ --- H_A, please, see attachment mentioned above), the potential well is -0,117 kcal/mol (much higher). All other atoms were kept fixed via constraints. How can I exclude the impact of other atoms of system C6H6---H2 in simulated potential H_---H_A?

SpectraCat said:
Furthermore, extracting the intermolecular potential at each point is also non-trivial .. usually this is done by the counterpoise method of Boys and Bernardi. Most molecular structure packages have counterpoise corrections as built-in routines.

Thank you. This correction is really important.
 
Ok, I think I understand better what you were asking in your original question. I see now that the authors do appear to have done some sort of atomistic decomposition of the different parts of their interaction potential. That means that they treated the overall interaction as a sum over all all of the individual atomic interactions .. that is why they have their Morse potential parameters indexed by atom in tables S3 & S4 .. their use of the term "atom type" in several places supports this interpretation. It makes a kind of sense as well, because they are trying to generate force field parameters .. I am just surprised that they are assuming isotropic potentials and completely ignoring the angular dependence of the potential which is certainly significant. Personally I think this is *highly* approximate, and I would not expect it to give good agreement with experimental data ... however, that is only my opinion, and I am not an expert in the field of force field generation. I strongly urge you to read the authors earlier work in that field, since they may explain the reasons why they can ignore angular dependence.

Anyway, you can do this same treatment yourself easily enough, and see if you get the same results. You just need to set up the sums properly, which is a bit tedious and tricky, but quite doable. You will also have more fitting parameters to deal with of course .. one set for each atom type.

One other point .. it doesn't look like the authors used the counterpoise corrections for their potentials, based on the equation on page S2, so you may want to try fitting both your corrected and uncorrected surface to see which gives better agreement with the paper.

Hope this helps.
 

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