How to get the Q of my inductor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the Q factor of an inductor for use in a Class A Common Emitter Colpitts oscillator, specifically at a frequency of 1 MHz. Participants explore methods to compute or estimate the Q factor based on measurements taken at lower frequencies, as well as the implications of various factors affecting Q at higher frequencies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • rsr_life seeks to understand how to obtain the Q factor of an inductor at 1 MHz, noting that their LCR meter provides Q at 1 kHz.
  • Bob S identifies four factors that influence the effective Q at 1 MHz: dc wire resistance, ac wire resistance (including skin effects), ac losses in the core material, and inter-turn capacitance.
  • rsr_life expresses uncertainty about the resistance readings from the LCR meter and questions how to relate the Q and L values at 1 kHz to those at 1 MHz.
  • Another participant suggests that if the inductor has a magnetic core, measurements at 1 kHz may not be applicable at 1 MHz due to changes in core properties with frequency.
  • It is proposed that air-cored coils maintain relatively constant inductance below their self-resonant frequency, and capacitance measurements may also remain consistent at 1 MHz.
  • A method is suggested to test the inductor's performance at 1 MHz using a signal generator and observing resonance with a capacitor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of measurements taken at lower frequencies to the desired frequency of 1 MHz. There is no consensus on a definitive method to calculate or estimate the Q factor at 1 MHz based on the provided data.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include uncertainty regarding the internal structure of the inductor due to its shielding, and the potential variability of magnetic core properties at different frequencies, which may affect the accuracy of the Q factor derived from lower frequency measurements.

rsr_life
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Hello,

I'm trying to construct a simple Class A Common emitter Colpitts oscillator. The Electronics book that I have tells me that I need to compute the Rcoil of the inductor. To do that, I need the Q factor of the inductor at 1 MHz, which is the frequency I'm trying to generate. How do I get the Q in the first place?

I do have an LCR meter which gives me what I think is the series resistance, the inductance and the Q, which it says is around 1.12 (at 1Khz), of the inductor. It also has a 120Hz option. Is this Q something I can use to compute the Q at 1MHz?

I need the correct value of Q to run the Colpitts oscillator at 1Mhz.

Any help, including formulas or circuits to compute Q, would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

rsr_life.
 
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Hi rsr life-
There are four things that will determine the effective Q at 1 MHz. The dc wire resistance, the ac wire resistance (skin losses-does it have Litz wire windings?), the ac losses in ferrite or other magnetic core at 1 MHz, and inter-turn capacitance that will cause the coil impedance to have resonances below or near 1 MHz. The inductance of the coil should be linear all the way up to 1 MHz. Q = wL/R for a tank circuit, where w = 2 pi frequency.
Bob S
 
Hello Bob,

The inductor that I have is wrapped in some kind of plastic/rubber shielding, so I can't tell what's inside, unfortunately. I do know the L value and the resistance I can compute from the LCR meter (at 1KHz). I think that resistance that the meter gives is the series resistance, but am not sure. The formula for Q that you stated uses the parallel R (inductive element in parallel with the coil resistive element). But is there some way I can calculate this Q/R given the Q and L at 1Khz?

I imagine people who design the Colpitts oscillator in class labs either know their inductor's Q at the desired oscillator frequency or have some straightforward method of finding this out.

Here are the readings from the LCR meter:

120 Hz L=21uH Q=0.1 R=0.117 ohms
1 KHz L=20.8uH Q=1.13 R=0.26 ohms​

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,

rsr_life
 
You can try to attract the coil with a magnet. If it attracts, the coil has a magnetic core and all measurements at 1 KHz are meaningless at 1 MHz because magnetic cores change their properties dramatically with frequency.

Air cored coils have fairly constant inductance if they are used well below their self resonant frequency. So, you could get an idea of their inductance with the LCR meter.

Capacitance measured on the LCR meter will also be much the same at 1 MHz.

If you have a signal generator or function generator that works at 1 MHz you can try the circuit arrangement below to check the coil. If the coil and capacitor are resonant, there will be a big increase in output signal at that frequency.

If your coil has an inductance of 21 uH at 1 MHz it should resonate with about 1200 pF.
 

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Thanks vk6kro,

I will try that.
 

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