How to Prepare a Buffer Solution with Methanoic Acid and Methanoate Ions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around preparing a buffer solution using methanoic acid and methanoate ions, specifically targeting a pH of 3.74. Participants also explore the implications of fluoride ion concentrations in a hard water supply, particularly in relation to calcium ions and potential precipitate formation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method for creating a buffer solution by equating the moles of methanoic acid (HCOOH) and methanoate ions (HCOO-) based on the pH and pKa values.
  • Another participant challenges the initial calculations, suggesting that there may be an error in the proposed method for preparing the buffer solution.
  • In the second question, participants discuss the addition of fluoride ions to a water supply and the recommended concentrations, with one participant expressing uncertainty about how to approach the problem.
  • One participant claims to have correctly determined the appropriate fluoride concentration, suggesting that the scientist's recommendation is valid.
  • Another participant elaborates on the relationship between fluoride and calcium ions, indicating that the precipitation of calcium fluoride depends on the concentrations of these ions and the solubility product (Ksp).
  • Participants mention using the ion product Q to assess whether precipitation will occur based on the proposed fluoride concentration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the method for preparing the buffer solution, with some participants questioning the initial calculations. The second question also generates differing opinions on the appropriate fluoride concentration and the conditions under which precipitation occurs.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific concentrations and constants (e.g., Ksp) without resolving the implications of these values on the proposed solutions. The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of ions in solution and the conditions under which precipitates form.

hobomoe
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I had these two questions in a test and I was completely stumped.

1. Make a 1-2L buffer solution containing methanoic acid and methanoate ions and with a pH of 3.74 using 1.07molL-1 HCOOH, solid HCOONa, 1.04molL-1 HCl, 1.16molL-1 NaOH(not all together). pKa(HCOOH)=3.74 M(HCOONa)=68gmol-1
Discuss two methods to make the buffer solution.

pH=pKa so HCOOH mol= HCOO- mol
1L HCOOH=1.07mol
1.07 mol of HCOONa x 68gmol-1=72.76g
1L of HCOOH with 72.76g of HCOONa will make a 1L buffer of 3.74 pH.

NaOH+HCOOH=HCOONa+H2O
1.07mol NaOH+ 2.14mol HCOOH=1.07mol HCOONa
Since the remaining 1.07mol of HCOOH reacts with the 1.07mol of HCOONa no more solutions need to be added.
0.4612L NaOH+ 1L HCOOH=1.4612L buffer solution of 3.74pH.

I think this one is correct.

2. F- ions are added to a towns water supply as they believe it helps with dental health. The towns water supply is 'hard' (high conc. of Ca2+ ions) with a conc. of 1.86x10^-3 molL-1. They think a F- conc. of 2.00x10^-4 molL-1 would be appropriate. A scientist recommends 1.31x10^-4 molL-1 because of the calcium ions present. Determine whether the scientist is correct and justify your answer.

I have no idea where to begin. I'm guessing it has something to do with the reactions quotient, Qs, and the solubility constant, Ks.
 
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hobomoe said:
I had these two questions in a test and I was completely stumped.

1. Make a 1-2L buffer solution containing methanoic acid and methanoate ions and with a pH of 3.74 using 1.07molL-1 HCOOH, solid HCOONa, 1.04molL-1 HCl, 1.16molL-1 NaOH(not all together). pKa(HCOOH)=3.74 M(HCOONa)=68gmol-1
Discuss two methods to make the buffer solution.

pH=pKa so HCOOH mol= HCOO- mol
1L HCOOH=1.07mol
This is where you went wrong.


2. F- ions are added to a towns water supply as they believe it helps with dental health. The towns water supply is 'hard' (high conc. of Ca2+ ions) with a conc. of 1.86x10^-3 molL-1. They think a F- conc. of 2.00x10^-4 molL-1 would be appropriate. A scientist recommends 1.31x10^-4 molL-1 because of the calcium ions present. Determine whether the scientist is correct and justify your answer.

I have no idea where to begin. I'm guessing it has something to do with the reactions quotient, Qs, and the solubility constant, Ks.

What is the target fluoride level? (it doesn't need to be F-, BTW)
 
I got the top one right I'm pretty sure. The bottom one is regarding precipitates, so Qs can't be greater than Ks. I got that the scientist was right but I'm too lazy to type it out.
 
For the second question, fluorine and calcium can form a precipitate depending on the concentrations of the two ions. Since [Ca2+] = 1.86\times10-3 M, using the Ksp of CaF2 you can find the equilibrium concentration of the F- anion, which is the maximum concentration that the solution could hold before it precipitates: Ksp = [Ca2+][F-]2, plug in the the values of Ksp and Ca2+, and you should get the [F-]. A fluoride concentration higher than this number will precipitate calcium fluoride.

Another way of solving this problem is using the ion product Q, which has the form of the Ksp, except that the concentrations are the actual or proposed (not equilibrium) concentrations. If Q > Ksp, then the salt will precipitate.
 

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