How to Prove a Limit Using Delta/Epsilon Proofs

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a limit using delta/epsilon definitions, specifically the limit of the function \(3x + 1\) as \(x\) approaches 2, which is claimed to equal 7. Participants are exploring the nuances of delta/epsilon proofs and the underlying concepts involved in establishing such limits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the algebraic manipulation involved in the proof and question the interpretation of inequalities. There is an exploration of how to derive a suitable delta from a given epsilon and the implications of the relationships between these variables. Some participants express confusion about the validity of certain assumptions and the nature of the proof process.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and clarifications on the algebraic steps involved in the proof. Some guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between delta and epsilon, and the need to ensure that the chosen delta satisfies the limit condition for all epsilon values. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of delta/epsilon proofs, with participants expressing their struggles and seeking further understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenges inherent in delta/epsilon proofs, particularly in ensuring that the chosen delta is appropriate for all epsilon values. There is also mention of the potential for multiple delta values in more complex cases, which adds to the complexity of the discussion.

Nidhogg
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I'm looking for a good, general explanation of how to do delta/epsilon proofs. I've searched all over the web but this stuff is just really confusing. Let me start with a problem, show my attempt at a solution, and then maybe you guys can explain it in a way that will make sense to me.

Homework Statement



Prove that: \lim_{x \rightarrow 2} 3x + 1 = 7

Homework Equations



If (0 < |x-a| < \delta) implies (|f(x) - L| < \epsilon), then \lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x) = L.

The Attempt at a Solution



We want to prove that: \lim_{x \rightarrow 2} 3x + 1 = 7 To do this, we must show that (0 < |x- 2| < \delta) implies: (|3x + 1 - 7| < \epsilon) So I start by taking: 3x + 1 = 7 and simplifying it to 3x - 6 = 0 Which we can set to being less than epsilon as a way of choosing a delta, thus |3x - 6| < \epsilon which means that 3|x-2| < \epsilon so I can choose \delta = \frac{\epsilon}{3}. Now I can assume that 0 < |x - 2| < \delta, and since \delta = \frac{\epsilon}{3} this means that 0 < |x - 2| < \frac{\epsilon}{3}

At this point, I just draw a blank. I feel as if I have everything I need to complete the proof, but I'm missing something, and all the explanations I read don't seem to help. Can someone please help me get this through my thick skull?
 
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Nidhogg said:
Now I can assume that
0>|x−2|>δ

zero is greater than delta? Doesn't that contrast with

Nidhogg said:
If
(0<|xa|<δ)​
?

This is essentially saying that you have a negative distance between x and a, which is confounding.

This is a good website for a better instructional:

http://www.milefoot.com/math/calculus/limits/DeltaEpsilonProofs03.htm
 
The goal is to show that for any fixed number epsilon, you can choose a delta such that ## | x- 2| < \delta \implies |f(x) - 7| < \epsilon##.
You have done a great job in the algebra, but you lost some of the theory.
You have ##| x- 2 | < \delta## and ##3| x-2 | < \epsilon ##.
When you choose ##\delta = \epsilon/3##, you are solving the equality not the inequality.
By putting the inequality back in, you should have shown that for any fixed epsilon, there exists a delta that satisfies the relationship.
 
ciubba: D'oh, that was a typo! I fixed it.
RUber: Thanks, man. I'll work on it a little more tonight.
 
So according to what RUber said, I have ## |x - 2| < \delta ## and ## 3|x - 2| < \epsilon##. I need to find from these two that such a delta exists for every epsilon, and I do this by putting together an inequality that relates delta and epsilon?

So, to take another whack at it I have: 3\delta = \epsilon and I have |x - 2| &lt; \delta so can't I derive 3|x - 2| &lt; \epsilon which means that ## |3x - 6| < \epsilon ## which means that ## |f(x) - L| < \epsilon##? In that case, haven't I completed the proof?
 
Nidhogg said:
So according to what RUber said, I have ## |x - 2| < \delta ## and ## 3|x - 2| < \epsilon##. I need to find from these two that such a delta exists for every epsilon, and I do this by putting together an inequality that relates delta and epsilon?

So, to take another whack at it I have: 3\delta = \epsilon and I have |x - 2| &lt; \delta so can't I derive 3|x - 2| &lt; \epsilon which means that ## |3x - 6| < \epsilon ## which means that ## |f(x) - L| < \epsilon##? In that case, haven't I completed the proof?

You just proved that when δ=ϵ/3, <br /> |3x +1-7| &lt; \epsilon In other words, that value of delta will only get you back to the "epsilon" inequality IF it is valid. The delta heavy proofs tend to have the form of find a value of delta, then prove that that delta is true, which you have just done. These proofs tend to be more useful for proving general cases than specific ones.
 
Ciubba: I'm not sure, but I think I'm getting closer to grasping this. We know now that when δ=ϵ/3, the limit inequality of |3x + 1 - 7| < ϵ holds. So what else do I have to do? Do I have to prove that there exists a δ such that δ=ϵ/3 for all ϵ? Isn't that necessarily true anyway since ϵ is a real number implicitly? What do you mean by an epsilon value's being "valid?" What does it mean to prove that a delta is true?

Sorry I'm so dense.
 
Nidhogg said:
Ciubba: I'm not sure, but I think I'm getting closer to grasping this. We know now that when δ=ϵ/3, the limit inequality of |3x + 1 - 7| < ϵ holds. So what else do I have to do? Do I have to prove that there exists a δ such that δ=ϵ/3 for all ϵ? Isn't that necessarily true anyway since ϵ > 0 by definition? What do you mean by an epsilon value's being "valid?" What does it mean to prove that a delta is true?

Sorry I'm so dense.

These are one of the hardest parts of calc, so don't feel bad.

The pre-delta/epsilon definition of a limit of the form \lim_{x-&gt;a}F(x)=L is:

F(x) is arbitrarily close to L for any x sufficiently close to a. The arbitrarily close part is |F(x)-L|<ϵ and it is arbitrary because we define epsilon, or the distance between f(x) and the actual limit. |x-a|<delta is the sufficiently close part, and it is not arbitrary. If epsilon=1, then there exists a delta for which any input "x" that makes |x-a|<delta true will put the function output within one unit (epsilon=1) of the actual limit at a.

In your case, delta=epsilon/3. If I want f(x) to be within one unit of L (epsilon=1), then delta=1/3, which means |x-2|<1/3. In other words, any value of x between 5/3 and 7/3 will put me within one unit of 7.

There are many approaches to proofs, but in this case, the idea was first to find a value of delta by expanding |F(x)-L|<ϵ and performing "cosmetic surgery" to make it look like
|x-a|<δ. From there, you successfully worked backwards and proved that that value of delta made the "epsilon inequality" (i.e. |F(x)-L|<ϵ) true.

Edit: Once you've mastered that, there is one thing that I should add: often times we are faced with either functions that do not have a uniform slope or with arithmetic operations of functions (e.g. find the limit of f(x)+g(x)). This can be an issue as the value of delta that puts f(x) within epsilon of the limit might be different from the value of delta that puts g(x) within epsilon of the limit. In these situations, we often have multiple values for delta, so we take whichever is smallest, which is written as delta=min{value of delta 1, value of delta 2, etc.}. This is important as, in these situations, putting in a value of "x" within delta of "a" will often put you closer to the limit than epsilon required. This isn't relevant to your equation as it was linear and, thus, had a constant slope; however, it is something that you should be aware of.
 
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Wow, thanks for all your help, Ciubba! I'll be studying some of the more complex delta-epsilon proofs with a friend this evening and your post will definitely be referenced for that.
 
  • #10
If you decide to do general cases, a useful trick is to prove that as epsilon becomes small, so do the "bounds" of the inequalities. Good luck!
 

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