How to show that a 4-polytope is a tiling of the 3-sphere

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter t_r_theta_phi
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which a 4-polytope can be classified as a tiling of the 3-sphere, focusing on the relationship between the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells. Participants explore whether these numerical properties alone can determine the topological nature of the polytope, particularly in contrast to simpler cases in lower dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells can indicate whether a 4-polytope is a tiling of the 3-sphere, using the tesseract and a disjoint union of tesseracts as examples.
  • Another participant acknowledges that having the same number of elements does not guarantee the same topological structure, citing the triangular tiling of a circle as an analogy.
  • A different participant notes that while the tesseract has a valid tiling of the 3-sphere, a disjoint union of tesseracts does not, raising questions about what distinguishes these configurations despite similar element counts.
  • One participant introduces a method for relating different types of elements in a polytope, suggesting that the ratios derived from the Schläfli symbol could provide insight into the structure of polytopes.
  • Another participant emphasizes that many topological spaces can share an Euler characteristic of 0, implying that additional conditions may be necessary to confirm a polytope as a tiling of the 3-sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about whether the numerical properties alone can determine the topological nature of a 4-polytope. There is no consensus on the conditions required for a polytope to be classified as a tiling of the 3-sphere, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved questions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in using Euler characteristics and numerical properties to differentiate between topological structures, as well as the need for additional criteria to establish a polytope's relationship to the 3-sphere.

t_r_theta_phi
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Is there a way to figure out if a 4-polytope is a tiling of the 3-sphere based on only the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells?

Here is a specific example. Say that there are two "polytopes" - one is a tesseract, and one is a disjoint union of two tesseracts. Both will have an Euler characteristic of 0, but single tesseract is homeomorphic to a 3-sphere and the pair of tesseracts is not. Is there a way to figure out this fact based only on the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells in each polytope?

In three dimensions the analogous problem could be easily solved because the single polyhedron would have an Euler characteristic of 2 and the disjoint union would have a characteristic of 4.

I'm not quite sure my terminology is correct but I gave it a try.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
t_r_theta_phi said:
Is there a way to figure out if a 4-polytope is a tiling of the 3-sphere based on only the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells?

Here is a specific example. Say that there are two "polytopes" - one is a tesseract, and one is a disjoint union of two tesseracts. Both will have an Euler characteristic of 0, but single tesseract is homeomorphic to a 3-sphere and the pair of tesseracts is not. Is there a way to figure out this fact based only on the number of vertices, edges, faces, and cells in each polytope?

In three dimensions the analogous problem could be easily solved because the single polyhedron would have an Euler characteristic of 2 and the disjoint union would have a characteristic of 4.

I'm not quite sure my terminology is correct but I gave it a try.

Not sure if this helps.

Consider a tiling of a circle as a triangle - 3 vertices, 3 edges (Euler characteristic zero). Two disjoint triangles have six vertices and six edges. Subdivide the triangle by adding a vertex in the interior of each line segment. This is a second tiling of the circle. It also has six vertices and six edges.
 
Last edited:
I see. So 6 vertices and 6 edges can correspond to different structures, so it is not possible to differentiate between the them based on numbers of elements alone.

As you mentioned in your example, for the triangular tiling there exists a tiling with double the number of elements that also tiles the circle. However, as far as I know, it is not like that with my tesseract example. 16 vertices, 32 edges, 24 square faces, and 8 cubic cells is a valid tiling of the 3-sphere, but 32 vertices, 64 edges, 48 square faces, and 16 cubic cells is not. If it were, wouldn't it correspond to a new regular polytope? In other words, since both have the same type of elements, what is it about the number of elements in the tesseract that makes it a tiling of the 3-sphere? I have a feeling that this is much more complicated than I originally thought.

The reason I am asking this is because I found a way to find the ratios of the numbers of each type of element in a regular 4-polytope given its Schlafli symbol. The ratios can be found by knowing how many of each type of element must connect to every other type of element, and then correcting for overcounting. I am wondering how this ratio corresponds to the actual number of elements in the polytope. Wouldn't the extra condition be that the polytope must correspond to a tiling of the 3-sphere?
 
Last edited:
I don't know anything about regular polytopes so without some research I can't comment. If you want to explain then we can try to figure it out together.
 
Last edited:
For any given polytope, imagine we know the information about its structure but not any of the actual numbers of vertices, edges, faces, etc. Let's say we want to find the number of type A elements (could be vertices, cells, anything) in terms of the number of type B elements. This is given by:

A = (# of A connected to each B) * B / ( # of B connected to each A)

The denominator corrects for overcounting.

Consider a cube for example. There are 3 E connected to each V, and 2 V connected to each E. Therefore

E = 3/2 V

Using this same method we can find

F = 3/4 V

Using the identity V - E + F = 2,

V = 8, E = 12, and F = 6.

-----------------------------

For the 4-dimensional tesseract we can use the same method to find

E = 2 V, F = 3/2 V, and C = 1/2 V

However, Euler's identity V - E + F - C = 0 holds no matter what V actually is. The actual numbers of elements cannot be found from this method alone.

There are many topological spaces that have an Euler characteristic of 0, so I am guessing that the missing condition is that the polytope must correspond to a tiling of the 3-sphere.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K