How to solve for the normal force in pole vaulting using the equation ΣF = ma?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the normal force (FN) in pole vaulting using the equation ΣF = ma. Participants clarify that the vertical force from the ground on the pole is 1500N, which is the net vertical force. They emphasize that the total force acting on the pole includes both vertical and horizontal components, leading to a resultant force of 2200N when considering a horizontal force of 700N. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding vector addition in this context.

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  • Understanding of Newton's Second Law (ΣF = ma)
  • Knowledge of free body diagrams
  • Familiarity with vector addition and components
  • Basic principles of forces in physics
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x2017
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Homework Statement


IMG_0053.jpg


Homework Equations


ΣF=ma

The Attempt at a Solution


IMG_0054.jpg


I drew a free body diagram for a), but am unsure where to go from here. Do I have enough information to rearrange the equations above and solve for FN?
 
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What are all these different forces? You are making it much more complicated than it is.
 
haruspex said:
What are all these different forces? You are making it much more complicated than it is.
In the Y direction, Fy1 & Fy2 are the forces on the pole from the athlete's hands, mg is the weight of the pole itself and FN is the force the ground exerts on the pole.
 
x2017 said:
In the Y direction, Fy1 & Fy2 are the forces on the pole from the athlete's hands, mg is the weight of the pole itself and FN is the force the ground exerts on the pole.
You do not have any information that allows you to treat the pole and vaulter separately, nor are you asked anything that requires you to do so.
 
haruspex said:
You do not have any information that allows you to treat the pole and vaulter separately, nor are you asked anything that requires you to do so.
Okay, so is it as simple as saying that the force from the ground acting on the pole is equal and opposite to the net vertical force? So -1500N?
Or should it be -1500N + mg of the pole/athlete since the mass of both together was given?

EDIT: I think my first idea is most likely correct if this is the right way to think about the problem since 1500N is the net vertical force
 
x2017 said:
Okay, so is it as simple as saying that the force from the ground acting on the pole is equal and opposite to the net vertical force? So -1500N?
Or should it be -1500N + mg of the pole/athlete since the mass of both together was given?

EDIT: I think my first idea is most likely correct if this is the right way to think about the problem since 1500N is the net vertical force
The wording is a little strange, but it says the 1500N is the vertical component of the force from the ground acting on the pole. I do not know why it emphasises or even mentions "net".
The question asks you to find the total force acting on the pole from the ground. That will not be equal and opposite to one of its own components.
 
haruspex said:
The wording is a little strange, but it says the 1500N is the vertical component of the force from the ground acting on the pole. I do not know why it emphasises or even mentions "net".

1500N-mg?
 
x2017 said:
1500N-mg?
To what question is 1500N-mg an answer?

You are told the vertical force from the ground on the pole. It calls this the net vertical force from the ground on the pole, but net force implies it is the sum of several forces. In what way does the vertical force from the ground on the pole consist of several forces? So I am inclined to ignore the word net there.
Likewise in the horizontal direction.

If the vertical force from A on B is Fv and the horizontal force from A on B is Fh, what is the resultant force of A on B?
 
haruspex said:
To what question is 1500N-mg an answer?

a)

haruspex said:
what is the resultant force of A on B?

FV + Fh?

So the force from the ground acting on the pole should be 1500N+700N = 2200N?

I am obviously very confused... I thought the ground could only apply force to the pole vertically...
 
  • #10
x2017 said:
FV + Fh?
Yes, as vectors.
x2017 said:
So the force from the ground acting on the pole should be 1500N+700N = 2200N?
How do you add vectors in different directions?
x2017 said:
I thought the ground could only apply force to the pole vertically
If the ground could not apply a horizontal force to the pole then the end of the pole would slide under the bar. Not very convenient for the vaulter.
 
  • #11
haruspex said:
How do you add vectors in different directions?

Since one is horizontal and one is vertical am I supposed to use pythagorean theorem?
 
  • #12
x2017 said:
Since one is horizontal and one is vertical am I supposed to use pythagorean theorem?
Yes.
 

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