How to solve for x using 2nd derivative?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter gevni
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Derivative
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the minimum root (x) of a cost calculation formula using the second derivative. Participants explore the implications of taking the second derivative and its role in identifying minimum values in the context of the formula provided.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a cost formula and seeks guidance on solving for x after taking the second derivative, which leads to an equation involving x.
  • Another participant clarifies that a minimum occurs where the first derivative equals zero and the second derivative is positive, not where the second derivative equals zero.
  • There are discussions about the conditions under which the first derivative is zero, including the consideration of positive and negative square roots.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the interpretation of the second derivative and its implications for finding minimum values.
  • A later reply emphasizes that a fraction can only be zero when its numerator is zero, suggesting that the second derivative equation presented does not yield a valid solution for x.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct approach to finding the minimum value, particularly regarding the role of the second derivative and the conditions for the first derivative. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on how to proceed.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the variables involved, particularly the conditions under which the second derivative is set to zero. The discussion highlights the need for clarity on the mathematical steps involved in determining minimum values.

gevni
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Hi, I am trying to find the minimum root (x) of one formula. For that, I took 2nd derivative and got this equation.

\[ 2 \times A \times (\frac{T}{x^3})=0 \]

Here A,T,x are greater then 0. I don't know how to proceed further, how to solve it for x? Can you please guide me?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Can you post the original problem in its entirety?
 
Ok! so I have a formula for cost calculation. I have to find the value of x where that formula will gives minimum value as cost should not be equal to zero, it has some minimum value.
The original formula is
\[ cost= A\times x+ B \times(n-x)+ C\times \frac{T}{x} \]

As I am only interested in minimum value of this formula. So I took 2nd derivative of it. That results in ;

\[ 2 \times C \times (\frac{T}{x^3})=0 \]

Here, A,B,C,T,n and x are greater then zero and A,B,C,T,n are known variables. I don't know how to solve it for x after 2nd derivative ?
 
$y = Ax + B(n-x) + \dfrac{CT}{x}$ will have a minimum at the x-value where $y' = 0$ and $y'' > 0$

$y' = 0$ at $x = \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$, assuming $A > B$

$y'' = \dfrac{2CT}{x^3} > 0$, so the minimum occurs at the x-value stated above
 
skeeter said:
$y = Ax + B(n-x) + \dfrac{CT}{x}$ will have a minimum at the x-value where $y' = 0$ and $y'' > 0$

$y' = 0$ at $x = \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$, assuming $A > B$

$y'' = \dfrac{2CT}{x^3} > 0$, so the minimum occurs at the x-value stated above

Thank you soooo much for helping. I was confused about whether I have to use
$y' = 0$ at $x = \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$
or
$y' = 0$ at $x = - \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$

And your explanation made it easy to understand.
 
gevni said:
Thank you soooo much for helping. I was confused about whether I have to use
$y' = 0$ at $x = \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$
or
$y' = 0$ at $x = - \sqrt{\dfrac{CT}{A-B}}$

And your explanation made it easy to understand.

you stated ...

Here, A,B,C,T,n and x are greater then zero

positive square root, correct?
 
gevni said:
Hi, I am trying to find the minimum root (x) of one formula. For that, I took 2nd derivative and got this equation.

\[ 2 \times A \times (\frac{T}{x^3})=0 \]

Here A,T,x are greater then 0. I don't know how to proceed further, how to solve it for x? Can you please guide me?
This is the same as \[\frac{2AT}{x^3}= 0 \].
But a fraction is 0 only when the numerator is 0. There is no value of x that makes it 0!
 
gevni said:
Ok! so I have a formula for cost calculation. I have to find the value of x where that formula will gives minimum value as cost should not be equal to zero, it has some minimum value.
The original formula is
\[ cost= A\times x+ B \times(n-x)+ C\times \frac{T}{x} \]

As I am only interested in minimum value of this formula. So I took 2nd derivative of it. That results in ;

\[ 2 \times C \times (\frac{T}{x^3})=0 \]

Here, A,B,C,T,n and x are greater then zero and A,B,C,T,n are known variables. I don't know how to solve it for x after 2nd derivative ?
A minimum for f(x) can occur where the first derivative is 0 and the second derivative is positive, not where the second derivative is 0!
 
skeeter said:
you stated ...
positive square root, correct?
yes
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K