How was Fermat's Last Theorem Proved?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of a proposed lemma related to Fermat's Last Theorem (FLT) and its implications for proving the theorem. Participants explore the lemma's conditions, counterexamples, and the nature of proofs in mathematics, with a focus on the interplay between conjectures and established results.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a lemma suggesting that if integers a, b, c have no common factor and n is odd, certain expressions are mutually prime, which could lead to a proof of FLT.
  • Multiple participants provide counterexamples to the lemma, demonstrating that it does not hold under the proposed conditions.
  • Some participants argue that the lemma requires additional conditions, such as a + b = c, to be valid.
  • Another participant emphasizes that without a proof, the lemma should be referred to as a conjecture rather than a lemma.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of proving mathematical statements before labeling them as lemmas, with some participants expressing frustration over unproven claims.
  • One participant attempts to provide a proof for the lemma but faces skepticism regarding its validity.
  • Another participant shares a new version of the lemma, indicating ongoing attempts to refine the argument despite the lack of proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the validity of the lemma, with ongoing disagreements about its correctness and the nature of mathematical proofs. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the lemma's status and implications for FLT.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of proof for the proposed lemma and the dependence on specific numerical examples that challenge its validity. The discussion highlights the complexity of establishing mathematical truths and the importance of rigorous proof.

Victor Sorokine
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Interesting lemma

If P.Ferma knew the proof of the following lemma
"Lemma. If numbers a, b, c, have no common factor, numbers c-a and c-b are also mutually-prime and n is odd, then the numbers (c^n-a^n)/(c-a) and (c^n-b^n)/(c-b) are also mutually-prime",
then with its aid it is possible to briefly and simply prove Fermat's last theorem.

Actually, in the Fermat’s equality (where numbers a, b, c have no common factor and n is odd) numbers c-a and c-b, obviously, mutually-prime. And then from the Fermat's little theorem it follows that with prime q>2c the numbers c^(q-1)-a^(q-1) and c^(q-1)-b^(q-1) are multiple by q.
And since, according to lemma, the numbers (c^(q-1)-a^(q-1))/(c-a) and (c^(q-1)-b^(q-1))/(c-b) are mutually-prime (i.e. have no common factor), then one of the numbers c-a and c-b is divided by q (>2c>c-b>c-a), i.e., the solution of the Fermat’s equation is not integer.

It remains to learn, who and when proved lemma.
 
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I hope nobody proved that lemma; it's not true!

Here's the smallest counterexample I could find:

a = 2
b = 2
c = 3
n = 3

a, b, c don't have a common factor.

c-a = 1
c-b = 1

These don't have a common factor

(c^n - a^n) / (c-a) = 19
(c^n - b^n) / (c-b) = 19

These do have a common factor.


Here's the smallest I could find with a and b unequal:

a = 1
b = 4
c = 9
n = 3

These don't have a common factor.

c-a = 8
c-b = 5

These don't have a common factor.

(c^3 - a^3) / (c-a) = 91
(c^3 - b^3) / (c-b) = 133

These do have a common factor: 7.


Here's another:

a = 5
b = 6
c = 17
n = 3

c-a = 12
c-b = 11

(c^3 - a^3) / (c-a) = 399
(c^3 - b^3) / (c-b) = 427

These do have a common factor: 7.
 
Hurkyl said:
I hope nobody proved that lemma; it's not true!

Here's the smallest I could find with a and b unequal:

a = 1
b = 4
c = 9
n = 3

These don't have a common factor.

c-a = 8
c-b = 5

These don't have a common factor.

(c^3 - a^3) / (c-a) = 91
(c^3 - b^3) / (c-b) = 133

These do have a common factor: 7.

Outstanding counterexamples!

Therefore I make correction to the Lemma:
the additional condition: a+b=c.
By the way, now to prove the lemma it is much easier.
 
Then feel free to post the proof.
 
Lemma

matt grime said:
Then feel free to post the proof.
Here are the minimum requirements for the lemma, necessary for the brief proof of the FLT: "Lemma. If integers a, b, c have only one common divisor 1, a+b=c and numbers (c^n-a^n) and (c^n-b^n) have common divisor d>2, then with n>1 one of the numbers c-b, c-a, a+b, c+b, c+a, a-b is divided by d ".
 
Victor Sorokine said:
Outstanding counterexamples!

Therefore I make correction to the Lemma:
the additional condition: a+b=c.
By the way, now to prove the lemma it is much easier.
No it's not.

a = 3, b = 10, c = 13, n = 3 is another counterexample.
a = 5, b = 12, c = 17, n = 3 is another.

If you're guessing, call it a conjecture. You can't call something a lemma until you have actually proven it.



Victor Sorokine said:
Here are the minimum requirements for the lemma, necessary for the brief proof of the FLT: ...
matt asked you to post the proof. That's not a proof.
 
Hurkyl said:
No it's not.

a = 3, b = 10, c = 13, n = 3 is another counterexample.
a = 5, b = 12, c = 17, n = 3 is another.

Your counterexamples speak about the accuracy of the Lemma:
10-3=7,
12-5=7.
Consequently, it is possible to begin the search for its proof.
 
Victor Sorokine said:
Your counterexamples speak about the accuracy of the Lemma:
10-3=7,
12-5=7.
Consequently, it is possible to begin the search for its proof.

What do you mean by accuracy of the lemma? If there exists A counter example then it isn't true.
 
d_leet said:
What do you mean by accuracy of the lemma? If there exists A counter example then it isn't true.

Here is the Lemma, which easily proves and which is sufficient for the brief proof of the FLT:
Lemma. If integers a, b, c have only one common divisor 1, a+b=c, number (c^n-a^n) and (c^n-b^n) have common prime divisor d>3c^2, in base d numbers a^n, b^n, c^n finish by digit 1, then with n>1 either number (a^n-b^n)/(a+b) is not divided by d, or number 3c^2 is divided into d ".

to be continued
 
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  • #10
Lemma And Its Proof

Victor Sorokine said:
to be continued

Lemma.
If integers a, b, c have only one common divisor 1, a+b=c, and number (c^n-a^n) and (c^n-b^n) have common prime divisor d>3c^2, and in base d numbers a^n, b^n, c^n finish by digit 1, then with n>1 either number (a^n-b^n)/(a+b) is not divided by d, or number 3c^2 is divided by d.

Proof.
Let us assume that number (a^n-b^n)/(a+b) is divided by d.
Then number S=(c^n-b^n)/(c-b)+(c^n-a^n)/(c-a)+(a^n-b^n)/(a+b), or
(c^n-b^n)/a+(c^n-a^n)/b+(a^n-b^n)/c = [c^(n+2)+b^(n+2)+(a+b)c^(n+1]/abc=
=[c^2+b^2+a(c+b)]/abc, is divided by d.
But since number a^n, b^n, c^n finish by number 1, then the number s = c^2+b^2+a(c+b), where 0<s<d, is single-digit number and, therefore, number S is NOT DIVIDED by d.
 
  • #11
Elementary proof of Fermat's last theorem

Victor Sorokine said:
Lemma.
If integers a, b, c have only one common divisor 1, a+b=c, and number (c^n-a^n) and (c^n-b^n) have common prime divisor d>3c^2, and in base d numbers a^n, b^n, c^n finish by digit 1, then with n>1 either number (a^n-b^n)/(a+b) is not divided by d, or number 3c^2 is divided by d.

Elementary proof of Fermat's last theorem

According to known theorem from the theory of integers, for any prime n there exist infinite great number of the prime numbers d of form d=pn+1, where p is integer. (This theorem is the simple consequence from the fact that, if numbers a and b are mutually-prime and n prime, then each divisor of the number (a^n+b^n)/(a+b) takes form pn+1).

Proof FLT:
Let us take simple d>c^(4n). Then, according to Fermat's little theorem, the numbers C^p-B^p, C^p-A^p, A^p-B^p, where C=c^n, B=b^n; A=a^n, are divided by d. And since A+B=C, then, according to Lemma, number 3C^2 is divided by d>3C^2. Consequently, the solution of Fermat’s equation is not integer.
 
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  • #12
Can't you just stop posting this nonsense?
 
  • #13
arildno said:
Can't you just stop posting this nonsense?

OK!
 
  • #14
Lemma is not true

Victor Sorokine said:
Lemma.
If integers a, b, c have only one common divisor 1, a+b=c, and number (c^n-a^n) and (c^n-b^n) have common prime divisor d>3c^2, and in base d numbers a^n, b^n, c^n finish by digit 1, then with n>1 either number (a^n-b^n)/(a+b) is not divided by d, or number 3c^2 is divided by d.

Lemma is not true. New version of the lemma:
If in the simple base q the mutually-simple numbers A^p, B^p, C^p (where C=c^n, B=b^n, A=a^n, prime n>2 and p=/q-1) finish by digit 1, then either A+B and A-B or C+B and C-B, or C+A and C-A have common divisor not equal to 1.
Today I have not its proof.

Time out
 
  • #15
I repeat, if you don't have a proof, then the correct term is conjecture. You cannot (correctly) call it a lemma until it has been proven.
 
  • #16
This guys tried to post the same thing in scienceforums.net, except there he blatantly said he was proving FLT. He was surprised when no one took him seriously >.<

Mate its good your trying, but wait till you learn abit more math. Fermat would have known this stuff.
 

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