- #1
Loren Booda
- 3,108
- 4
As world history is decided by all peoples, wherein it will President George W. Bush eventually stand?
How will George W. Bush figure in world history?
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Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the historical legacy of President George W. Bush, examining how he may be viewed in the future by both Americans and the global community. Participants explore various aspects of his presidency, including his responses to terrorism, economic policies, and public perception, while considering the challenges of assessing his impact while he is still in office.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Historical
Main Points Raised
- Some participants suggest that Bush will be remembered poorly, with one stating he will likely rank low in historical assessments due to his economic policies and perceived high-handedness.
- Others argue that his speeches following 9/11 were stirring and may positively influence his legacy, particularly regarding the U.S. response to terrorism.
- There are differing views on how history will judge Bush's actions, with some believing that his presidency will be seen as a disaster, while others think he may be viewed more favorably in the context of his decisions during crises.
- Participants discuss the influence of popular versus professional historical narratives, noting that public perception can differ significantly from academic evaluations.
- Some express skepticism about the fairness of historical memory, comparing Bush's legacy to that of other presidents like Nixon and Clinton, suggesting that certain actions may overshadow others in public memory.
- There is a contention regarding the effectiveness of his foreign policy, particularly the decision to invade Iraq instead of focusing on Afghanistan, with some arguing that this was a significant blunder.
- Several participants express strong personal opinions about Bush, with some using derogatory terms and others emphasizing their difficulty in respecting him despite acknowledging his importance in recent history.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants do not reach a consensus on Bush's historical legacy, with multiple competing views remaining. Some agree on the challenges of judging his presidency while it is ongoing, while others express strong negative opinions about his actions and decisions.
Contextual Notes
Participants highlight the complexity of historical judgment, noting that assessments may vary based on the lens through which they are viewed, including the distinction between popular and academic history. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties regarding the long-term implications of Bush's presidency.
- #2
selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 6,839
- 11
Probably low but not at the bottom. He will get a little raise from his speeches after 9/11, but his actions on the economy will have by then been shown to be disasterous, and his administration's high handedness in nearly all areas will not go down well with historians.
- #3
motai
- 364
- 2
That and he is the only one to choke on a pretzel and have passing resemblances to a monkey.
- #4
russ_watters
Mentor
- 23,829
- 11,305
I think its a little tough to judge now since he's not even halfway through his presidency.
- #5
selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 6,839
- 11
You wish!
- #6
LURCH
Science Advisor
- 2,549
- 119
True, the speaches were stirring and elloquent, and rencered all the more so by the fact that he isn't a very good speaker most of the time. At least, that's what impressed me most about those speaches.
But I think that of all the events in his first term, it will be his actions regarding 911 that will be remembered the most. The WTC massacre will probably be seen as the turning point where the US truly decided to get serious about terrorism. And because he was the president in office at the time, and the one who intiated the actions taken against terrorism since, he will most likely be remembered for his roll in the inititation of an all-out effort to stem the growth of terrorism worldwide.
I truly hope that he will be remembered for the "Freedom Car" initiative because if he is, it will be because that program sparked a revolution in the global energy economy. Likewise, I hope he will be remembered as the president who led us to the first human landings on Mars. But these are more wishes than predictions, not because I want him recalled as a great man, but just because I hope these things will happen.
- #7
Zero
I think history will see him accurately, which means it will see him poorly.
- #8
jimmy p
Gold Member
- 399
- 73
history only remembers the things it WANTS to remember
i mean correct me if I am wrong and I am using the old cliche, Hitler was a monster who ordered hundreds of thousands to their deaths etc... but a lot of people don't know that in the earlier days before the war, he built Germany back up from the ashes.
Bush will be remembered for his downfalls.
i mean correct me if I am wrong and I am using the old cliche, Hitler was a monster who ordered hundreds of thousands to their deaths etc... but a lot of people don't know that in the earlier days before the war, he built Germany back up from the ashes.
Bush will be remembered for his downfalls.
- #9
member 5645
agree.
- #10
Loren Booda
- 3,108
- 4
How will humanity as a whole differ significantly from Americans in lasting judgement of President Bush?
- #11
Zero
Probably the world at large will see Bush's presidency as a disaster. Most Americans will too, over the course of time. How much of a disaster is up for grabs though, at least for Americans. Plus, we have to consider whether we are discussing professional historians' view, or "popular" history. After all, Nixon was both a better and worse president than popular history gives him credit for, because his presidency was defined in the common view as "Watergate". Clinton was a credible moderate Republican president, but the popular view is all "Lewinski".
Since Bush has screwed up nearly every aspect of the presidential duties, who knows exactly what history will remember him for?
- #12
Loren Booda
- 3,108
- 4
Zero
A-hem! A Dem!
- #13
russ_watters
Mentor
- 23,829
- 11,305
Actually, I don't. But unfortunately, there aren't any good alternatives, so his re-election is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
- #14
Zero
In name only.
- #15
Kalimaa23
- 277
- 1
Wasn't it Michael Moore who stated the Clinton was, without a doubt, the best Republican president ever?
- #16
Zero
He is not even nearly the only one. In fact, my understanding was that Clinton was only a Democrat because early in his career he completely alienated the Arkansas Republicans, and had little choice but to run as a Dem.
- #17
Shahil
- 115
- 21
In Afrikaans, there's a word which PERFECTLY suits mr. bush. He's a DOOS!
I'm sure you enterprising guys will find out the meaning of that!
I'm sure you enterprising guys will find out the meaning of that!
- #18
member 5645
Wooh! Now we're calling names!
- #19
Chemicalsuperfreak
- 218
- 2
I'd say somewhere between Nixon and Hoover.
- #20
Kalimaa23
- 277
- 1
Een doos is a box in Dutch. You're saying that's an insult down there?
- #21
Shahil
- 115
- 21
Doos is a colloquial saying meaning something on the lines of someone really stupid. I don't speak afrikaans so can't really directly translate it but its a common saying known by most South Africans.
Sorry phatmonky but I really find it hard to respect Mr. Bush. Unfortunately he's probably the most important man in American history because of how events are panning out in the world today but still, I just can't credit him for being great AT ALL!
- #22
member 5645
In Afrikaans, DOOS is box literally, but slang for female genitalia.
- #23
Zero
Can we get back on track here?
- #24
Shahil
- 115
- 21
Sorry Zero!
Back to the actual topic, even though I severly dislike Mr. Bush, maybe his decisions that he took were actually the only routes that could be taken? I mean, if my country was bombed (911) and I knew that my country is the strongest in the world, I WOULD retaliate. It just seems logical. Dunno, maybe, taking this into account, Bush ain't such a bad historical figure after all when put in context?
- #25
Zero
He would have been ok if he had focused troops and money in Afghanistan. Instead, he abandoned that country to the warlords, and moved on to Iraq for no logical reason.
- #26
Loren Booda
- 3,108
- 4
I think that sums up his pivotal foriegn policy blunder(!), and may lose him the next election.
- #27
Shahil
- 115
- 21
Don't you just think that he HAD to leave Afghanistan coz if he stayed, American resentment would have gone to such a level that the AMerican backed govt would have suufered a coup and then Bush would've really been red faced.
Also, by leaving Afghanistan, media attention has been focused else meaning any "blunders" that are occurring there now are reserved for those half an hour specials on BBC or CNN (ie. news that doesn't have the impact of headline news) rather than in the main news bulletin.
Strategically, I think he did his best to save face in the circumstances of adversity.
BUT, at the end of the day - I still totally disagree with his war mongering which was done terribly.
- #28
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
- 8,213
- 2,660
I think that President Bush will be remembered for lying about the war and destroying American credibility abroad. I think the consequences of this are only beginning to be revealed. As Hans Blitz said yesterday, for example, the failure of US intelligence over a period of months to recognize that the "Aluminum tubes" documents were forged, as opposed to the one day that it took the Europeans, "is scandalous".
- #29
schwarzchildradius
I seem to remember him voted "worst president in history" here a little while back... He's going to be low but not at the bottom. By far the worst in a century. :(
- #30
Beren
- 90
- 0
Remember Franklin Pierce? Grover Cleveland?
Yeah, me neither. Same concept. All but forgotten.
Yeah, me neither. Same concept. All but forgotten.