Huge Energy Bill - Has House Approval

[hitssquad]

Question: Do you know it is possible for a private citizen to register himself as a business and then purchase assets in the name of that business?

Citizens in the market for machine guns and super-shorty shotguns know this.
http://www.serbu.com/nfainfo.htm

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4) Form a corporation. This is a loophole which gets you around the sign off. Do this ONLY if you can't get a sign off. The down side is that there are many hassles associated with forming and maintaining a corporation. Another down side is that the corporation owns the guns, you don't.
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[The Smoking Man]

Argumentum ad hominem means argumentation against the person. It's a way of deflecting from the actual arguments being made by your opponent. It is and has always been considered an informal logical fallacy. If you think this:

I am older and more experienced than you.
Therefore, you are wrong.

Nope. You wrote that.

I stated that I am older than you and I have therefore had experience with this type of legislation before from a professional standpoint and in my personal life.

Tell me ... if some kid is working in a garage and is half way through hooking up a scope to an engine and a guy who has 25 years in the business walks in and hears a tic and says, "It's missing on the third piston", is this an ad hominem attack too?

You have the same amount of experience with this particular bill as I do - none. Heck, I might have more experience than you since I bothered to take a look at the thing before deciding it was all bunk. I decided to make up my own mind instead of accepting the headline accounts of what it contained.

Look, kid, I keep telling you that the thing is a dog because of the premise being based in TAX REBATES.

Again, you're in loseyourname lalaland. How many people in the SENATE read the bill before the vote?

Here's a hint. Go and look at the Patriot Act and see if you can read the thing in the two days they took before IT was passed.(No that wasn't an attempt at digression. That was an attempt at pointing out to you that most legislation is not even read by the people who vote on the things. I suggest you watch F9/11 where Moore asks that same question and is invited to 'sit down while the facts of life are read to him'.)

Not at all. I find plenty wrong with it. But they had to pass a policy of some sort and this is as good as anything else that was proposed. I'm asking you to read it because I feel that knowledge of a given bill is a prerequisite for intelligent discussion of the bill.

Do you actually know how long this bill as been around? Do you think I don't actually know what is in it? This is the same pig that Bush has been trying to push through since day one of his presidency where he wanted to open up nature preserves in Alaska to drilling.

What "type?" All you've complained about are the rebates, which make up something like 11 out of 40 titles in the bill. There is a lot more to it than that, including many of the things you are saying should be included.

Well, hey ... it must be good. The People's Daily thinks it is. http://english.people.com.cn/200507/30/eng20050730_199280.html

If you insist, but guess what? There are men as expert as you, more expert than you, that think otherwise. The appeal to authority doesn't work when the authorities can't come to agreement. That's why I'd like to at least see a specific objection to this legislation. Besides, you're wrong on at least one count. Tax rebates for energy conservation here in California have been very effective, and I'm glad this bill expands them.

Wow, now you are quoting the record of the state that just a couple of years ago was in default on their energy bill which allowed the 'Governator' to assume office.

Or perhaps you thought the conservation rebates were primarily for energy providers, not individuals and businesses that actually use the energy. Maybe if you read the bill you wouldn't think that.

Okay, I'll give you your merrit badge in 'Bill Reading'. Then, we'll forbid anyone who has not read the 1,200 page tome from even commenting on it because they just can't hold a candle to you!

Is that what you want?

Most people in the USA will never read your 1,200 page 'act' and you know what? ... they will all manage to debate the issue quite comfortably.

Heck, if you go over onto 'fox news' and do a search on 'Energy Bill' they even have some accountants sponsoring links to get you the best deal on the dollar ladder. No, that wasn't how to set up a business doing research or drilling a well, or getting a quicker permit or any of the things the bill purports to do. It is a direct link to 'accounting your way to wealth'.

 

[SOS2008]

More on the Good, The Bad, and The Ugly Energy Bill

Aside from my state representatives (McCain, Kyle, Flake, etc.) opposing the energy bill...

I just received my electric bill. They are promoting their program "Earthwise Energy" in which I may make a contribution ranging in $3 to $12 additional to my monthly bill in support of renewable energy sources. Apparently the subsidies in the new energy bill are not enough, so customers are now being encouraged to 'donate' to this big utility as well.

I can't imagine why people feel our country is heading in the wrong direction...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I know what you're saying but I always have the nasty thought in my mind of San Andreas and Japan. Or even a conventional war.

Bomb my wind farm, shake my dam, break my solar panels but nuclear sites? ... It's really hard to justify a nuclear halflife based on results in ideal conditions. Even the Exxon Valdize doesn't have half the problems that a large nuclear accident could bring.

And I'm sorry but, I was in the UK when they started finding radioactive particles on the beach just down fron a British Nuke site. People were sunbathing on that beach and anyone laying on it would have been irradiated.

You just don't hear stories like this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1512884,00.html with regard to wind farms and the like. So far, the best they have come up with is they are ugly.

A couple of the sites you sent me to were cool. The U of Chicago biomass for example. I'm all for that.

I know I don't live in an ideal world AND I am a pessimist. I am very hard to convince on this issue.

I'm not sure what's up with the Brits and their nuclear power plants. They apearantly also tried out a breeder reactor design utilizing liquid sodium cooling, similar to the IFR design, and had several accidents involving coolant leaks which led to fires and serious injury, death too if I remember correctly. And now they have workers collecting radioactive samples with a wellington boot on a string...

True, wind has relatively little negative impact. There is one other factor aside from ugliness though. There have been reports from environmentalists regarding impact on avian population due to the birds flying into the mill blades. There is also the matter of the amount of space being taken up by the mills as opposed to a power plant. I've read that some of these projects have turned out to not be as cost effective as they were sold as being among other problems, unfortunately the only people I have found really giving these stories much attention are conservative wackos who think that Kyoto is a conspiracy against the US.
The problems with wind that don't really need varification though are: The mills need to be in areas where they will be effective, there aren't many areas with a max effectiveness across the US though those that do exist supposedly can create enough energy for the entire country. Irregularity of the energy source, the slack and down time will need to be made up for by another power source. Line losses, considering that there are only certain locations where it would be economical to use wind farms the energy will need to be transported over long distances to get to many cities which will incur line losses. This would also require quite a bit of infrastructure.
I'm not against it. I think it's a good idea for areas that can utilize it best, but it's not the answer that it's promoted as.

Argonne's projects definitely look good, I need to read more of the material on their site.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I think it's a good idea for areas that can utilize it best, but it's not the answer that it's promoted as.

Argonne's projects definitely look good, I need to read more of the material on their site.

I am with you there, I don't think there will ever be 'one' answer to this problem and we are going to be looking at hybrid solutions that take advantage of geological and environmental strengths the world over.

There will be 'simple solutions' that may not be the best.

I doubt we'll see the best answers used as the solutions we need as long as there are 'vested interests'.

All we can do individually is our best.

God, I sound lame.

 

[kat]

Aside from my state representatives (McCain, Kyle, Flake, etc.) opposing the energy bill...

I just received my electric bill. They are promoting their program "Earthwise Energy" in which I may make a contribution ranging in $3 to $12 additional to my monthly bill in support of renewable energy sources. Apparently the subsidies in the new energy bill are not enough, so customers are now being encouraged to 'donate' to this big utility as well.

I can't imagine why people feel our country is heading in the wrong direction...

and the promotion I received with my bill tells us that August 22nd or something is "Safe neighborhood day" and to show our support we should all waste electricity by leaving our front porch light on...

 

[Skyhunter]

As far as I know, you don't get a tax break just for buying an H-2. You get one if you use it for business purposes, but that is the case for any car. A brother and sister pair I know have most of their leases on a Corvette and a Viper deductible because they advertise the name of commercial websites they own on the rear windshield.

You are correct. The deduction is for businesses and the vehicle must be used for business at least 50% of the time. This is a very popular loophole for doctors, lawyers, and realtors

Here is a good link for hybrid -vs- hummer

http://www.ucsusa.org/hybridcenter/page.cfm?pageID=1702\

Check out Orrin Hatch's Clear act. Unfortunately it wasn't included in the energy bill, but it still has a chance if he can muster enough support.

http://www.ucsusa.org/hybridcenter/act/hybridtaxcreditsaction.html

 

[SOS2008]

and the promotion I received with my bill tells us that August 22nd or something is "Safe neighborhood day" and to show our support we should all waste electricity by leaving our front porch light on...

That's hilarious!

 

[Astronuc]

"Energy Policy Act of 2005" - http://www.ne.doe.gov/EPAct2005/hr6_textconfrept.pdf

1724 pages

 

[loseyourname]

"Energy Policy Act of 2005" - http://www.ne.doe.gov/EPAct2005/hr6_textconfrept.pdf

1724 pages

I read the outline when we were first going through this thread. No way I'm tackling that whole thing. I don't envy the senatorial aides that will have to, either.