Hydrogen Atom Photon Emission Wavelength Formula

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of Lyman-alpha wavelengths of photons emitted from hydrogen-like atoms, specifically deuterium and helium ions, using the Rydberg formula. Participants explore how the Rydberg constant and related expressions change when considering different atomic systems, including positronium and muonium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the relation 1/λ = R*|1/ni^2 - 1/nf^2| for calculating wavelengths, questioning how the Rydberg constant changes for different hydrogen-like atoms.
  • Another participant suggests that the Rydberg constant must be multiplied by the atomic number Z squared, but expresses uncertainty about whether R changes for different elements.
  • Concerns are raised about photon emission in positronium or muonium due to the absence of a proton, leading to a Z number of 0.
  • Some participants clarify that the Rydberg formula was initially empirical and may not apply to systems like positronium or muonium without adjustments for reduced mass.
  • It is mentioned that for multiple-charge nuclei, the expression for e2 must be adjusted to account for the atomic number Z.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the Rydberg constant does depend on the element or isotope, and adjustments for reduced mass must be made for accurate calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the Rydberg constant remains constant across different elements and isotopes. There is no consensus on how to apply the Rydberg formula to systems like positronium or muonium, with some arguing for the necessity of adjustments while others maintain that the original formula suffices.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the Rydberg constant is influenced by the reduced mass of the system, which varies depending on the particles involved. The discussion highlights the need for careful consideration of these factors when applying the Rydberg formula to various atomic systems.

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I am trying to calculate the Lyman-alpha wavelengths of photons emitted from different hydrogen-like atoms such as deuterium and positive helium ion 4He+, using the relation 1/λ = R*|1/ni^2 - 1/nf^2|, where R is the Rydberg constant and ni and nf are integer numbers corresponding to the initial and final energy levels, which, for Lyman-alpha wavelength, are 2 and 1, respectively. The expression for Rydberg constant is R = me/(4πħ3c)*(e2/4πε0)2.
My question is: what changes in these two expressions when we are dealing with different hydrogen-like atoms?replace electron mass me with new reduced mass μ? atomic number Z (but it is not included in any of the two expressions)?
Any help will be appreciated!:smile:
 
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Shyan said:
See here!
Thank you Shyan! I know now that you have to multiply by the atomic number Z squared but the site does not explain how the Rydberg constant changes for different elements, or does it even change? :wideeyed:
 
Penemonie said:
Thank you Shyan! I know now that you have to multiply by the atomic number Z squared but the site does not explain how the Rydberg constant changes for different elements, or does it even change? :wideeyed:
It uses the same R in both equations!
 
Shyan said:
It uses the same R in both equations!
Thank you!
 
Shyan said:
It uses the same R in both equations!
Will there be no photon emitted if we are dealing with a positronium or muonium because there is no proton so the Z number is 0?
 
Penemonie said:
Will there be no photon emitted if we are dealing with a positronium or muonium because there is no proton so the Z number is 0?
The Rydberg formula is an experimental result devised by observing the spectrum of different atoms in a time when muons and positrons(and actually even electrons) where not known! So, as it is, you can't expect it to describe the spectrum of particles you mentioned as well. Maybe using quantum mechanics it can be shown that it actually does work for the particles you mentioned but that's another matter.
 
Yes, the Rydberg constant was originally an empirical value, determined by fitting to the measured values of the wavelengths of the hydrogen spectrum. The major triumph of Bohr's atomic model was that it predicted the value of R from more fundamental constants, as given by the formula in the first post. It can also be derived from the solution of Schrödinger's equation for the hydrogen atom.

For positronium or muonium you have to replace me with the reduced mass of the system (electron+positron or muon+proton or whatever), like you do for any other hydrogen-like system like He+, Li++, etc. (or even plain hydrogen itself).

For multiple-charge nuclei you consider the e2 to be (ee)(enuc) and replace enuc = Zee, so e2 becomes Ze2.
 
Shyan said:
The Rydberg formula is an experimental result devised by observing the spectrum of different atoms in a time when muons and positrons(and actually even electrons) where not known! So, as it is, you can't expect it to describe the spectrum of particles you mentioned as well. Maybe using quantum mechanics it can be shown that it actually does work for the particles you mentioned but that's another matter.
Thank you Shyan!
 
  • #10
jtbell said:
Yes, the Rydberg constant was originally an empirical value, determined by fitting to the measured values of the wavelengths of the hydrogen spectrum. The major triumph of Bohr's atomic model was that it predicted the value of R from more fundamental constants, as given by the formula in the first post. It can also be derived from the solution of Schrödinger's equation for the hydrogen atom.

For positronium or muonium you have to replace me with the reduced mass of the system (electron+positron or muon+proton or whatever), like you do for any other hydrogen-like system like He+, Li++, etc. (or even plain hydrogen itself).

For multiple-charge nuclei you consider the e2 to be (ee)(enuc) and replace enuc = Zee, so e2 becomes Ze2.
That explains a lot! Thank you jtbell!
 
  • #11
Shyan said:
It uses the same R in both equations!
You seem to imply that R doesn't depend on element or isotope, which is wrong. Maybe you meant something different, but I can see this statement confusing the OP, so I have to respond.

If you look here, it shows you that you have to make an adjustment for the reduced mass of the system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_constant
$$R_M = \frac{1}{1+m_e/M} R_\infty$$
M is the mass of the nucleus. Or in the case of positronium, M=m_e, so the Rydberg constant is approximately 1/2 of hydrogen. (This works out to the same as replacing ##m_e## by ##\mu##)
 
  • #12
Khashishi said:
You seem to imply that R doesn't depend on element or isotope, which is wrong. Maybe you meant something different, but I can see this statement confusing the OP, so I have to respond.

If you look here, it shows you that you have to make an adjustment for the reduced mass of the system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_constant
$$R_M = \frac{1}{1+m_e/M} R_\infty$$
M is the mass of the nucleus. Or in the case of positronium, M=m_e, so the Rydberg constant is approximately 1/2 of hydrogen. (This works out to the same as replacing ##m_e## by ##\mu##)

Thank you for your help Khashishi!
 

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