Hypervalent Oxygen: Violating Rules & Reactions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of hypervalent oxygen and the possibility of ionic water formation, specifically examining the reactions involving H2O molecules and the implications of hypervalency in the context of chemical rules. The scope includes theoretical considerations and chemical reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that two H2O molecules can gain and lose electrons, resulting in a hypervalent oxygen with 9 electrons and another oxygen with 7 electrons.
  • Another participant questions the validity of this claim, suggesting that they have only encountered the reaction producing H3O+ and OH- instead.
  • Some participants propose that H2O+ and H2O- can form under certain conditions.
  • One participant argues that the idea of hypervalency being impossible in second-row elements is a misconception, yet expresses skepticism about the feasibility of the proposed reaction in the gas phase due to energy costs and stability issues.
  • This participant also notes that in solution, H2O- does not exist, but rather a solvated electron forms briefly before reacting to produce H2 and OH-, indicating unfavorable energetics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the possibility and stability of hypervalent oxygen and the formation of ionic water. Multiple competing views remain on the validity of the reactions proposed and the underlying principles of hypervalency.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about the stability of ionic water and the conditions under which these reactions may occur. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions of hypervalency and the energetic considerations that influence the feasibility of the reactions.

caters
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I know that it is possible for 2 H2O molecules to gain and lose electrons. This reaction looks like this:

2 H2O -> H2O+ + H2O-

This causes 1 of the oxygen atoms to be hypervalent since it now has 9 electrons. The other oxygen has only 7 electrons. The electron on the hypervalent oxygen came from 1 of the other oxygen's lone pairs.

Obviously this ionic water is not stable.

But how is this ionic water possible when it violates 1 of the general rules in chemistry which is that hypervalency starts in the 3rd period not group 16 of the 2nd period.
 
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Is this really true ? Because I have never seen anything like this, rather i have seen this
2H2O = H3O+ + OH-
Pls. Read the equal to as a reversible arrow.
 
Yes under certain conditions H2O+ and H2O- can form
 
Hypervalency not being possible in 2nd row elements is nowadays known to be a fairy tale, which nevertheless is going on to get told to high school students.
Nevertheless, I don't think that this reaction happens. In gas phase, H2O- is only marginally stable. The electron is bound by the dipole moment of the water molecule and is spread out over a large area. It does not resemble a valence electron at all. On the other hand, it cost's a lot of energy to ionize H2O to H2O+, so this reaction is not feasible in the gas phase.
In solution, H2O- doesn't exist. Rather, there exist a solvated electron for a short time, which rapidly reacts under the formation of H2 and OH-. Again, energetics isn't favourable.
 

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