I have question regarding quantum physics (localizing an electron)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the localization of electrons in quantum physics, exploring concepts such as uncertainty, measurement, and the differences between classical and quantum mechanics. Participants express their challenges in reconciling classical intuitions with quantum principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant compares the uncertainty of an electron's position to the visibility of a fast-moving fan blade, suggesting a novice understanding of quantum phenomena.
  • Another participant clarifies that quantum physics describes states where only probabilities of finding an electron can be determined, emphasizing the importance of resisting classical interpretations.
  • A participant acknowledges the difficulty of shifting from classical to quantum thinking and expresses a willingness to adapt their understanding.
  • It is noted that classical physics assumes particles have definite properties regardless of measurement, which does not hold true in quantum mechanics, potentially leading to misconceptions.
  • One participant questions whether the phenomenon discussed is related to the observer effect, prompting clarification that the observer effect exists in both classical and quantum contexts but can be minimized in classical scenarios.
  • A later post introduces an example of maximally entangled photon pairs, discussing the lack of local properties that can be measured, emphasizing the correlations rather than local measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of quantum mechanics, particularly regarding the implications of measurement and the nature of properties in classical versus quantum physics. There is no consensus on the relationship between the observer effect and quantum measurement.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of measurement and properties in quantum mechanics remain unresolved, and the discussion reflects a range of interpretations without definitive conclusions.

sadaronjiggasha
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TL;DR
As QP says it is uncertain that where you found electron.
As QP says it is uncertain that where you found electron. But its not the same phenomena that one fan blade running so fast that you cant see where the blade is. You can only see the blade on a particular position if you use high resulation camera and its position depend on when you take the picture. I know very novice question, still want to know. Thank you.
 
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sadaronjiggasha said:
As QP says it is uncertain that where you found electron.
This is not what quantum physics says. It says that there are states, such as stable states of an electron in the hydrogen atom, where you can only say the probability of finding the electron at a given position. When the position of a particle is measured, it will always be localized (within measurement error).

When first encountering quantum mechanics, one is tempted to try and fit things into a classical frame, as it is what our classical brains can best do. Try and resist that urge and take the quantum world to be what it is. I think that you will find this most satisfying in the long run (without having to unlearn incorrect things) even if means that you can't really make sense of quantum mechanics at first.
 
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Thank you for your answer. Yes it is realy hard to think differenly when your brain all ready occupied with general physics. I will try to think differently.
 
there is also the fact that in classical physics particles have definite properties even if you do not measure them. it is not the case in QM. supposing it would lead to false conclusions.
 
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Heidi said:
there is also the fact that in classical physics particles have definite properties even if you do not measure them. it is not the case in QM. supposing it would lead to false conclusions.
Is it called observer effect?
 
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sadaronjiggasha said:
Is it called observer effect?
No. The observer effect, that observing a system will change it in some way, is present in classical physics as well as quantum (although classically it can be made arbitrarily small).
 
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An example can be given with the maximally entangled pairs of photon (the famous Bob and Alice measurement)
A source emits photonic systems with these properties with these properties (no other ones)
the number occupation is 2
allways the same energy
a null global momentum
a null global angular momentum
You can see that you have no property assigned to what Bob or Alice could measure.
there is no local existing things that they can measure but they can verify the nullity of the sum of
two same measurements . the source emits correlations not local properties.
 
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