I was watching Stephen Hawking Into the universe and he was talking

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time travel, particularly the implications of mass and gravity on the perception and flow of time. Participants explore theoretical aspects of time as a physical entity versus a human construct, touching on ideas from both general and special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if time travel to the future is possible, it suggests that time is a physical reality rather than a mere paradox created by humans.
  • One participant suggests a formula, E=mc² = The rate of T, positing that greater mass affects the flow of time, although others challenge the correctness of this equation.
  • There is a discussion about how gravity affects time, with some arguing that immense mass would lead to observable differences in time perception, while others assert that a mass of 20 million tons is insufficient to have a significant effect.
  • Participants mention that time dilation can occur even without large masses, as illustrated by scenarios in special relativity, such as traveling at high speeds in a rocket.
  • One participant expresses a belief that everything has time and that the fourth dimension is not merely a human concept, suggesting that time runs slower in areas of greater mass, like near a black hole.
  • There is a distinction made between physical time and human perception of time, with some arguing that they are unrelated phenomena.
  • The effect of gravity on time is discussed, with references to how time on Mars and in high-altitude environments like the ISS is slightly different from that on Earth, though the differences are minimal.
  • Some participants agree that greater density leads to more significant curvature of space-time, aligning with principles of general relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of time, its relationship with mass and gravity, and the implications for time travel. There is no consensus on the correctness of specific equations or the extent to which mass affects time, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of general and special relativity, and some mathematical steps remain unresolved. The discussion reflects a variety of interpretations and assumptions regarding the nature of time and its measurement.

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I was watching Stephen Hawking Into the universe and he was talking about time travel.
So I got to thinking if time travel into the future is possible then that would mean time isn't a paradox mankind made up and it is physical. Not sure if the formula is even any where right but this is what I've came up with.. E=mc2 = The rate of T. Basically The more mass something has the greater it affects time. Tell me what you think and let me know if I'm completely wrong.
 
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It's fun to speculate but your reasonng needs a more solid foundation.

Mass does affect time through gravity. But your equations aren't correct.
 


If I was to sit at the base of something that was let's say 20 million tones. If I was to look out after sitting there sometime it would look like everything farther away was moving just a little bit faster and the same in reverse. Because the mass is so great as you said gravity affects time so that still makes time real and not a paradox right? Just like time would move faster in space then Earth and time would run in a blink of an eye in some cases.
 


It will never happen that you look at your watch and see it running too fast or slow. It will always seem to run correctly because it's very close to you. But things that are further away and near immense sources of gravity would look like they are running differently.

20 million tones would do nothing though. It's way too small.
 


Yes, your watch wouldn't drift in time because your still on Earth and yes 20 million would be to small you affect the watch but in a small way it would affect you. That just goes into the math of mc2= rate of time. Time moves at the rate of the objects gravity = the objects mass.
 
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"mc2=rate of time" is not right, just say instead: mass bends the curvature of space-time.
Also, In special relativity, time dilation can happen even without large masses.
In special relativity, you can "travel into the future", in the sense that if you took off in a rocket and returned to earth, you would have aged slightly less than the people on earth.
I've been told that there is no physical law that says you can't visit yourself in the past, (but of course, this would create paradoxes.) General relativity may permit this kind of "time-travel" by wormholes, or a circular space-time of some sort. But testing these possibilities is not something scientists can do today.
 


I know the mc2= the rate of time isn't the right I'm just wondering if it can be proven. Just the idea that time is a real thing and not a paradox. I agree with the traveling in the future but the only way to would to reach just under the speed of light which would affect time itself but how can you affect time if time isn't real? I believe everything everywhere has time. The 4th dimension isn't just a mankind paradox. I imagine that the word itself of course would be different. Mars is smaller then Earth so time would run slower there because the gravity less? more mass = more gravity = slower time. Just like a black hole would have a massive gravitational pull so time itself would slow then stop at the center.
 


Time in physics IS a real thing.
Time as experienced by humans is a controversial topic. For example at the instant when someone misses a step on the stairs, that person might feel that time slows down.
Clearly, in this example, physical time hasn't slowed down, but the human perception has.
So time in physics and time in human perception are two unrelated phenomena, IMO
 


Redwit said:
Mars is smaller then Earth so time would run slower there because the gravity less?
Time on Mars will be affected about as much as high altitude on Earth, like in the ISS. The astronauts in orbit on the ISS and any on Mars experience time slightly faster than on Earth, but the dilation factor is vanishingly small - on the order of a billionth, or one second over 30 years, or 3 years over the entire lifetime of the Earth.
Here's an old thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=40391.
 
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So that would mean the more mass something has the more it affects time? This is all I'm wondering if I'm right in some way or another or on the right track or completely wrong. If I'm dead wrong that's okay because asking the question is the most important part.
 
  • #11


Yeah, the greater the density, the more it curves space-time. That's the basic idea. I don't know much more on the subject of general relativity, but I do know a bit about special relativity.
 
  • #12


so from our perspective, a watch that started falling toward a black hole would start to slow.
 
  • #13


BruceW said:
so from our perspective, a watch that started falling toward a black hole would start to slow.

Yes.
 

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