Identifying the Gold & Titanium Balls

  • Context: High School 
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    Balls Gold Titanium
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying two identical balls, one hollow gold and the other solid titanium, without using measurement devices or damaging them. Participants explore various methods and reasoning related to physical properties, density, and material characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest knocking the balls to determine which is hollow, but this is challenged by the anti-acoustic properties of the paint.
  • Dropping the balls in water is proposed, but participants note that both have the same mass and volume, leading to the same buoyancy.
  • There are discussions about removing the paint, but this is deemed damaging and not allowed.
  • Some participants mention the concept of density and how the gold ball would displace more water, though this is countered by the same mass argument.
  • One participant discusses the trajectory of the balls when shot from a cannon, suggesting that the hollow gold ball would not fly steadily due to its structure.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of using magnetic properties, noting that titanium is paramagnetic and gold is diamagnetic, but questions arise about the use of measurement devices in this context.
  • There are suggestions to scratch the balls with a copper stylus to differentiate them based on hardness, but this is also challenged as potentially damaging.
  • Some participants argue about the moment of inertia, suggesting that the hollow ball would behave differently when spun compared to the solid ball.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on how to identify the balls, with no consensus reached on a definitive method. Disagreements arise over the validity of proposed methods and the interpretation of the rules set by the original post.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the use of measurement devices and the implications of damaging the balls, which complicates the proposed solutions. The discussion remains open-ended with various hypotheses and methods being explored.

Sakha
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You have 2 balls. Both are identical in size and mass, but one is made of gold and is hollow,the other is not hollow and made from titanium. Find out which is which ball, and let's say both are covered with a black paint that is anti reflective, heat/electricity insulator. You can't use any measurement device, nor hitting, damaging or breaking the ball..

P.S: There's a really simple way.
 
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Knock them? One will sound hollow?
 
Mmm.. let's say the paint is anti-acoustics.
 
Roll the balls side-by-side down a ramp. The solid ball will roll faster.
 
wheew.. you're fast..
 
Sakha said:
wheew.. you're fast..
Around here, we like our women that way. :devil:
 
drop them in water. the hollow one will bob higher.

oh..same mass, never mind
 
regor60 said:
drop them in water. the hollow one will bob higher.

oh..same mass, never mind

Nice try.
 
Remove the paint?
(This as an alternative to lisab's suggestion)
 
  • #10
oohh rigid bodies that's really good
 
  • #11
put them in a bucket of water
they vary in density
the gold will pull out more water
am i correct?
 
  • #12
arildno said:
Remove the paint?
(This as an alternative to lisab's suggestion)
As I said, you can't damage nor break the ball, and removing the paint would be considered damaging. But yeah, lisab's answer is right.
some_one said:
put them in a bucket of water
they vary in density
the gold will pull out more water
am i correct?
Both would pull same amount of water because both are same size and mass, so they have same volume and density.
 
  • #13
I think black is a damaging colour, I'm merely prettifying the balls..
 
  • #14
aaahhh disregard it
you sayed that the gold ball is hollow
 
  • #15
No, imagine a gold sphere as an "o" the black line is gold and the white is hollow... The titanium sphere is all solid.
 
  • #16
if you shoot them out of a cannon
the gold ball will not fly in a steady trajectory
because its hollow

in order to fly in a steady way you need to have a full ball

because from my knowledge
the AK bullets have a shifted center of mass
which make them highly unstable
and when they hit a person
instead of going forward
they are starting to swirl inside the victim

am i correct?
 
  • #17
The middle of the gold ball is empty, some one, it is hollow.

The hollowed gold ball can perfectly well have the same size and mass as the compact titanium ball
 
  • #18
some_one said:
if you shoot them out of a cannon
the gold ball will not fly in a steady trajectory
because its hollow

in order to fly in a steady way you need to have a full ball
Actually I don't know. I didn't went that far.
 
  • #19
Titanium is paramagnetic.
 
  • #20
i am not a physicist but i had some small experience with fire arms

and i know for a fact that bullets with a shifted center of mass
are swirling inside the victim instead of going threw him

the question is whether the hollow ball considered to have a shifted center of mass
 
  • #21
No, the center of gravity is the center of the ball (geometric). For both balls.
 
  • #22
these materials have different electric resistance

so plug it threw an electric circuit
and mesure the resistance using ohms law
i know that the gold in a pretty good conductor so it should have less ressistanse
 
  • #23
Sakha said:
You have 2 balls. Both are identical in size and mass, but one is made of gold and is hollow,the other is not hollow and made from titanium. Find out which is which ball, and let's say both are covered with a black paint that is anti reflective, heat/electricity insulator. You can't use any measurement device, nor hitting, damaging or breaking the ball..

P.S: There's a really simple way.

anti reflective, heat/electricity insulator.
 
  • #24
there are particles called miuons which go threw any thing
and they will go faster threw the hollow ball
 
  • #25
The OP has stated that no measurement device can be used.

To which I will make 2 qualifiers for you picky types:
1] He means no man-made measurement device, i.e. eyes and such are allowed.
2] He is indicating that this can be solved without resorting to any man-made measurement. The test is easy, the results are obvious.
 
  • #26
the only solution is this rigid body property
i can't think of any better answer
 
  • #27
some_one said:
if you shoot them out of a cannon
the gold ball will not fly in a steady trajectory
because its hollow

in order to fly in a steady way you need to have a full ball

because from my knowledge
the AK bullets have a shifted center of mass
which make them highly unstable
and when they hit a person
instead of going forward
they are starting to swirl inside the victim

am i correct?

The balls do not have a shifted centre of mass though. Thery are symmetrical.

Good try though. You're getting warmer.
 
  • #28
LowlyPion said:
Titanium is paramagnetic.

... and gold is diamagnetic.

Enough clues yet?
 
  • #29
LowlyPion said:
... and gold is diamagnetic.
How will you know without an instrument to measure it?
 
  • #30
DaveC426913 said:
How will you know without an instrument to measure it?

You will know by utilizing the paramagnetic quality of the titanium. You place the ball in a magnetic field and then use another magnet to detect which one exhibits an attractive force. No measurement involved.
 

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