If space is not continuous, then is calculus wrong?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of space potentially being quantized rather than continuous, and how this might affect the application of calculus in physics. Participants explore whether calculus can adequately describe physical phenomena if space is not continuous, particularly at small scales.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if space is quantized, it could challenge the application of calculus, particularly the intermediate value theorem, which relies on continuity.
  • Others argue that calculus is not intended to provide an exact description of space, but rather serves as a useful approximation for modeling physical phenomena.
  • It is noted that mathematics operates in an idealized realm, which may not directly correspond to the properties of real space.
  • Some participants express the view that while calculus may not be the perfect tool for all scenarios, it remains effective for many physical applications.
  • A few participants mention literature, such as Shan Majid's work, that discusses the relationship between discrete spacetime and mathematics.
  • There is a suggestion that new mathematical frameworks may need to be developed to account for discrete spacetime, although this is acknowledged as a complex challenge.
  • Some contributions emphasize that the effectiveness of calculus as a tool does not negate the need for further exploration into its limitations regarding discrete models.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on whether calculus is fundamentally flawed or merely an approximation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of a discrete spacetime on the validity of calculus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of developing new mathematical tools that could accommodate discrete spacetime, indicating potential limitations in current approaches.

  • #91
lugita15 said:
\mathbb Z is definitely not the intersection of all the hereditary sets containing 1; \mathbb N is a hereditary set containing 1, but it doesn't contain the rest of the integers. And the interval \left[1,\infty\right) is a hereditary set containing 1, so \mathbb N is not the only hereditary set containing 1.
Got it. I just didn't follow your directions the first time around. I didn't stare at it long enough.


Anyhow, we are getting quite far afield from the OP. Then again, the original post represented a misconception that was dealt with in the first few posts of this thread. Whether space is discrete or continuous has nothing to do with the validity of calculus. Or the reals for that matter.
 
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  • #92
Lugita, thank you for these clear and handy explanations.
 
  • #93
Here is another way to look at the question
(This was inspired by another recent thread)

If we roll a die n times the probability of a specific sequence is

{P_n} = {\left( {\frac{1}{6}} \right)^n}

Now let n tend to infinity

{\left[ {{P_n}} \right]_{n \to \infty }} = \left( {\frac{1}{6}} \right)_{n \to \infty }^n = 0

That is the probability of any particular sequence becomes vanishingly small.

Yet we assert that if we add all of these up we get a finite total.

\sum\limits_{n = 1}^\infty {\left( {{P_n}} \right)} = 1

Which is essentially the same process as the probabilisitc calculation/view in quantum mechanics.
 
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