If you look a bit foreign, don't do math on a plane

[micromass]

Also, I'm sure you will consider this irrelevant, but do answer this:

How many muslims do you know personally? What are your experiences with them?

 

[fresh_42]

If live in a town with a significant ratio of muslim citizens. We have six mosques and religion isn't a big issue in everyday life. There are some problems with young male muslims and their behaviour towards women. To some extent this is due to religion. At least it is distinctive and IMO it displays a different system of values which is the center of why religion becomes an issue.
Nevertheless, the general consensus is to live and let live. There is even a young jew who offers sightseeing tours including the visit of a mosque.

The most complaints about islam, however, arise by far in parts of Germany where only very few muslims live. I can't see any logic behind it but pure fear of the unknown and propagandists who try to use those fears to their political benefit.

I wonder if it is similar in the US?

 

[Davephaelon]

This is a very strange story. You can hardly go anywhere in the US without encountering people with foreign accents. I never pay attention to it because it's so commonplace. Also, it's as if this woman had never seen a person with dark, curly hair - kind of impossible. The majority of people of Euro descent have dark hair; it's also the dominant hair color worldwide. For example, growing up in a family of 8 there was one straw blond (brother), one curly redhead (mom), and the rest of us (had) dark brown hair (not curly). So that's 75% dark hair, and we're of northern Euro descent.

I would have been delighted to have sat next to this young man, as I'm planning to study differential equations. I would have asked lots of questions, assuming he was OK with being distracted.

 

[dipole]

Nope sorry. Unless you can prove this, this is just angry bigotry. I would respect your statement more if you said that any religion is dangerous, although I also don't agree with this.

I've actually made my opinion about this clear in other threads. Many religions are dangerous, including Christianity, but some are worse than others. How can you make that last statement. Are you claiming that a system of belief is never dangerous?

Consider a more extreme case. Suppose, as a thought experiment, there are two religions - in the first, it is believed that the Sun God requires human sacrifice to appease him, and every month on the full moon people must be slaughtered to earn the Sun God's blessing, or terrible things will happen to everyone else. The Sun God is most pleased when non-believers are chosen for the sacrifice. In the second, it is believed that all living things are part of a cycle of death and rebirth, and that one should avoid causing harm or suffering to living beings, because they have souls and will one day be reborn as a human, and that that one's cruelty and selfishness in life can affect them in their next.

Would you, with a straight face, claim that people from the first religion are less dangerous than people from the second? Neither of these are that far off from real religions which have existed in human history.

If you will concede, that in this more extreme example, the first system of belief is very dangerous, and the second is very benign, then you must also concede that a line exists where a system of beliefs can create the propensity for dangerous behavior. If so, then how can you outright reject the claim that a religion can be dangerous? That is just absurd.

If, however, you agree with me, then you should at least admit the possibility that Islam, as a system of belief, is problematic in the modern world, and may be more so than most other religions.

But what proof would you like that would convince you? I can give you names of people who have written about this, and are much more knowledgeable on the subject than myself, but would it change your mind? You seem steadfast in your belief.

Also, I'm sure you will consider this irrelevant, but do answer this:

How many muslims do you know personally? What are your experiences with them?

One of my fellow PhD students is devout Muslim. Wears the special garments and headdress, long beard, the whole thing. He's a very brilliant guy, and from my interactions with him a very nice person. However, I feel sad for him that he was born into a poisonous ideology and hasn't been able to free himself from it. I would feel the same way were he a devout Christian.

 

[collinsmark]

Today's SMBC seems relevant to this thread.

[Source: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4148]

 

[Davephaelon]

I find myself embarrassed by the stereotyping of us Americans, in this article, as dumb, clueless, Neanderthals, intolerant of anyone who appears different from us. I cringe at the thought of what people, elsewhere in the world, think of us now, perhaps as some monolithic, inbred tribe. The reality is that this young man doesn't look that different from many of us average Americans, and would fit right in here. So, I dug through some old photos of my fellow Americans - my 36th birthday party with coworkers, and a vacation trip with friends. Out of 4 individuals, guess what? - two (the females) had dark, curly hair! http://starflight1.freeyellow.com/Waistline.html

This article underscores the fact that we have entered another "silly season" (presidential election cycle); rather like past UFO waves when we Americans were divided into two camps - a rigid PC position, and those who espoused a more flexible, realistic attitude - like the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek.

 

[ZapperZ]

If you will concede, that in this more extreme example, the first system of belief is very dangerous, and the second is very benign, then you must also concede that a line exists where a system of beliefs can create the propensity for dangerous behavior. If so, then how can you outright reject the claim that a religion can be dangerous? That is just absurd.

If, however, you agree with me, then you should at least admit the possibility that Islam, as a system of belief, is problematic in the modern world, and may be more so than most other religions.

But what proof would you like that would convince you? I can give you names of people who have written about this, and are much more knowledgeable on the subject than myself, but would it change your mind? You seem steadfast in your belief.

There are several issues here:

1. To show that there is an inherent problem with something, you need to actually look at that something directly. In other words, if you wish to show that there is an inherent problem with Islam, more so than other religion, then you need to look and study what it actually says, and then show that this is problematic. We're not talking about citing passages without context here.

2. If you can't do that, then you need to do a scholarly citation. Yes, I said scholarly citation, not just some newspaper article or someone's opinion of the internet.

3. Show that it is fundamentally different than other religions, because after all, you are singling out one particular religion in particular.

One of my fellow PhD students is devout Muslim. Wears the special garments and headdress, long beard, the whole thing. He's a very brilliant guy, and from my interactions with him a very nice person. However, I feel sad for him that he was born into a poisonous ideology and hasn't been able to free himself from it. I would feel the same way were he a devout Christian.

Look at what you said here. From all indication, this person that you've described is a "nice person", had not done anything wrong to you or anyone else. But you have JUDGED him and piled on your prejudice towards him not based on his ACTIONS, but based on your perceived understand of his beliefs BASED ON HOW HE DRESSED! The problem here isn't him. It is YOU!

And yes, if i wish, I can easily form a lot of negative impression about you based on this, all without knowing who you truly are or what is in your heart.

Zz.

 

[dipole]

There are several issues here:

1. To show that there is an inherent problem with something, you need to actually look at that something directly. In other words, if you wish to show that there is an inherent problem with Islam, more so than other religion, then you need to look and study what it actually says, and then show that this is problematic. We're not talking about citing passages without context here.

2. If you can't do that, then you need to do a scholarly citation. Yes, I said scholarly citation, not just some newspaper article or someone's opinion of the internet.

3. Show that it is fundamentally different than other religions, because after all, you are singling out one particular religion in particular.

Well I'm not a religious scholar, but frankly neither is anyone else participating in this discussion - so at this point, unless someone goes to the effort of obtaining peer-reviewed articles, then I suppose the discussion has come to a wall. I am at a slight disadvantage here, because my position is more easily falsifiable (though I think it is more likely I am correct), and so the burden of proof rests more on myself. If I find I have more free time this summer, then I may post articles I feel are worth sharing, but I don't see myself spending a great deal of time trying to win an argument on the internet.

Look at what you said here. From all indication, this person that you've described is a "nice person", had not done anything wrong to you or anyone else. But you have JUDGED him and piled on your prejudice towards him not based on his ACTIONS, but based on your perceived understand of his beliefs BASED ON HOW HE DRESSED! The problem here isn't him. It is YOU!

And yes, if i wish, I can easily form a lot of negative impression about you based on this, all without knowing who you truly are or what is in your heart.

Zz.

This I don't understand. What have I judged about him? I know for a fact he is a devout Muslim, even if he didn't wear the religious clothing, I was just giving an easy visual example. What prejudice have I piled against him? Are you referring to my dig against Islam as a "poisonous ideology"?

Sorry, but that's not judgement or prejudice. I don't owe it to anyone to respect their beliefs. I may use softer language to someone's face, because it's not my intention to offend someone, but at the end of the day if someone is offended because I think their beliefs are wrong, poisonous, immoral, silly, or whatever - that's their problem, not mine. I don't demand the world the rest of the world respect and refrain from criticism of my beliefs. After all, it was you who compared me to Adolf Hitler for my position on this subject...