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News Illegal immigration really bad in Europe

  1. Jul 27, 2011 #1
    I never knew it was this bad here in Europe until visiting this time around again. Almost everywhere I went from the Vatican and Spanish steps in Italy to the eiffel tower and versailles in France, I was constantly approached by illegal immigrants trying to sell me junk or knock off stuff. I feel bad for them just trying to make 15 euro a day so they can eat, but at the same time it looks like Paris is transformed into a 3rd world country with tons of cheap street vendors everywhere pushing shopping carts loaded with canisters they burn trash in order to grill things. I really don't see how much longer the EU can keep it up. There are TONS of illegals in Italy and France, the EU problem may be even worse than the one we have in he US.
     
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  3. Jul 27, 2011 #2

    Astronuc

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    The solution would be economic development in underdeveloped nations - and elimination of corruption and oligarchies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  4. Jul 27, 2011 #3

    Evo

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    I would agree, the EU is becoming an extension of the middle East. I know France has allowed way too many immigrants and they are really suffering. Half of my family lives in France, mostly in Paris. It's bad.

    The US is huge, while we have a problem with illegal Mexican immigrants, they don't have a lifestyle that is incompatible with ours. I feel that is one of the main problems in the EU, the immigrants have an incompatible worldview and are unwilling to adapt. IMO, it's destroying Europe.

    If Europe doesn't close it doors now, it will disappear as we know it. To be honest, I think too much damage has already been done.
     
  5. Jul 27, 2011 #4

    Pengwuino

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    Why don't you give them all citizenship like they want to do here? :)
     
  6. Jul 27, 2011 #5

    jtbell

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    How do you know they're illegal? Did you ask them for their papers?
     
  7. Jul 27, 2011 #6

    Evo

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    Oh, I was talking about legal immigrants. France's laws have been virtually non-existant, and it's like they just woke up and realized that they have a serious problem.

    America is a country of immigrants, but the immigrants all had similar basic beliefs. I think that is what makes mixing successful. One culture cannot be diametrically opposed to the core beliefs of another.
     
  8. Jul 27, 2011 #7
    Because normal people don't run when the cops come strolling by. It gets really annoying when you are harassed for the 1000th time in less than an hour to buy junk when you are just trying to enjoy sight seeing of a historical monument.
     
  9. Jul 27, 2011 #8

    Evo

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    Sicily was almost as bad as Thailand as far as beggars go.

    My ex-fiance in Sicily told me to keep walking, don't stop, don't look at them.

    When I went to Thailand, we were warned about the beggars/shysters and not to deal with them. They also explained about the tourist scams. If you haven't been to Bangkok, you can't imagine what it's like. Scamming tourists is an industry. I realized that I needed a pair of shorts, so I willingly paid $10 for a fake pair of haut couture designer shorts outside of the hotel. I was going to be riding elephants. Ten dollars was half the annual income there. I was chastised by my tourguide, but I told him I knew they were counterfiet, I just needed some shorts for our trip to the elephant farm.
     
  10. Jul 27, 2011 #9
    Heheh I actually thoroughly enjoyed Bangkok and love Thailand a lot, but I had cousins as tour guides that kept us safe and sound. Chiang Mai was much better than Bangkok in my opinion. Way less crowded, much cleaner, and not as seedy.
     
  11. Jul 27, 2011 #10
    what upset the tour guide? the fact that you bought the shorts, or that he thought you overpaid?
     
  12. Jul 27, 2011 #11

    Evo

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    We took a private jet up to Chang Mai to visit the silk producers and the elephant training camps.
     
  13. Jul 28, 2011 #12
    Is it legal to peddle without a license in France and Italy?
     
  14. Jul 28, 2011 #13
    I’m sorry, but I just have to provide a counter to some of what has been said on this thread. Even if it was something that was vaguely possible to do, for Europe to close its boders would be the gravest possible mistake it could make. The likely consequences would be dire. As Astronuc said, the way to stop economic migrancy is to remove the things that drive it which is primarily extreme and grinding poverty proximate to decadent and indulgent wealth. And it simply is not true to suggest that whole cultures are ‘diametrically opposed to the core beliefs of another’. There are groups of fundamentalists whose core beliefs may be diametrically opposed to those of the tolerant majority, but as events of the last few days have demonstrated, fundamentalism crosses cultures as does the desire for a peaceful and untroubled existence and a consequential understanding of the need for tolerance.
     
  15. Jul 28, 2011 #14

    DevilsAvocado

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    Nope, and that’s the first reason for running, but it’s hard to tell if they are all illegal immigrants. In Paris, the National Gendarmerie throws any ('suspect') person without proper papers out of the country, but they tend to come back.

    400px-CRS_tenue_maintien_ordre_p1200484.jpg

    But I do know that France has a large population of legal immigrants, which (to some extent) for some reason seem not to 'integrate' in the society (same problem in many European countries).

    France is home to the largest Muslim population in Europe (approx 10% of 65 millions).


    EDIT: Astronuc & Ken Natton, agree. One dysfunctional Iron Curtain was enough.
     
  16. Jul 28, 2011 #15

    Evo

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    They didn't want any of us buying from the people selling fake goods. All I had were dresses since there were very strict dress codes at a lot of places we were going, then they sprung the elephant camp on us and I had nothing that I could have reasonably worn and didn't have time to go shopping.
     
  17. Jul 28, 2011 #16

    Evo

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    France made an error in allowing so many immigrants and now they are a bit too late in doing something about it. Immigration laws need to be in the best interest of the receiving nation.

    Those are some scary looking cops. Must be special forces? The violent riots that Paris has been subjected to were horrific.
     
  18. Jul 28, 2011 #17
    France made an "error" invading these North African And Asian countries. Now people from these former French colonies are coming back to France. Some Europeans do not like it, I guess people of former French colonies also did not like French invasion and europeanisation of their culture.
     
  19. Jul 28, 2011 #18
    As an immigrant to the US, and a libertarian, I have to believe that the problem is not with immigration but immigration that is subsidized. If you're an immigrant who wants to work, fine. However, once you introduce entitlements and don't contribute to the tax base and don't respectfully follow the law of the land, then it becomes a problem.

    Many Hispanics in my community are appalled by doctrines that both the Democrats and Republican parties have adopted. Many of the immigrants don't have the same respect for the American culture and the dire need for independence.

    Case in point, my father came to the US with the notion to work via Job Corp.-legally. After so many years, he had the opportunity to apply for citizenship. During his first years in the US, he was not offered nor did he recognize any form of entitlements. He's main drive was to work.

    What's appalling is how I see entitlement programs are already degrading many traditions of the Hispanic culture (namely hard work and independence). My father, with a 3rd grade education, worked 80-100 hours as a carpenter. 30 years later he owns 5 houses and several other properties. This isn't just an isolated incident. ALL of my uncles and aunts followed the same path of working hard and achieved the same financial success. However many of their children have taken the path of receiving government subsidies, and aren't nearly as successful as their parents.
     
  20. Jul 28, 2011 #19

    Evo

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    So did England, Belgium, Portugal (mainly in S. America) in the period of "colonization".

    France has no obligation to continue to allow mass immigration from North African countries. They have already allowed a disproportionate number of immigrants from these areas and are now suffering the consequences. Like it or not, people do not have a right to choose which country they can live in. If you wish to move to a country, then you must also wish to assimilate into that country and take on their customs.

    It is time to remove the PC fears and address the problems, they are not going to go away if they are ignored. Things are coming to a boiling point in Europe.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/04/18/135496066/immigration-issues-test-unity-of-the-european-union
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  21. Jul 28, 2011 #20
    the problem is that a lot of these people are refugees, fleeing wars and financial turmoil started by americans and europeans.
     
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