I'm gonna pretend to be deep now

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SUMMARY

This forum discussion revolves around the interpretation of a post that critiques religious idealism and the nature of belief. Participants debate whether the original post serves as a mockery of faith or a serious exploration of mystical experiences. Key figures mentioned include Michael Martin, author of "Atheism: A Philosophical Justification," and references to philosophical concepts such as the perception of reality and the subjective nature of belief. The conversation highlights the tension between faith and skepticism, ultimately questioning the validity of experiences that shape one's beliefs.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of philosophical concepts related to belief and skepticism.
  • Familiarity with the works of Michael Martin and his arguments on atheism.
  • Knowledge of mystical experiences and their interpretations in philosophical discourse.
  • Awareness of the relationship between perception and reality in philosophical discussions.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the arguments presented in "Atheism: A Philosophical Justification" by Michael Martin.
  • Explore the concept of mystical experiences in philosophy and psychology.
  • Study the philosophical implications of perception versus reality in religious contexts.
  • Investigate the role of humor and mockery in philosophical debates about faith.
USEFUL FOR

Philosophers, theologians, skeptics, and anyone interested in the intersection of faith, belief, and philosophical inquiry will benefit from this discussion.

Zero
My children, I see a world beyond this one, that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind. Only by using the eyes of your heart, the ears of your soul, and the fingers of your pancreas, can you see hear, and touch this invisible world. Do you doubt me? If you only believed hard enoughj, clap your hands,and click your heals together, it will be so. The interruptions and breaks in the timeflow obscure the messages from the past, but the future is like a rainbow trout, swimming in a sea of paperclips.
 
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"Since experiences of God are good grounds for the existence of God, are not experiences of the absence of God good grounds for the nonexistence of God? After all, many people have tried to experience God and have failed. Cannot these experiences of the absence of God be used by atheists to counter the theistic argument based on experience of the presence of God?"
Michael Martin, Atheism: A Philosophical Justification
 
I once dropped a beer bottle off a 100ft tower, it fell, and 90ft before the ground wind caught it and it hit the steel structure of the tower only to bounce 10ft up and then down onto some rocks where it bounced again and spun over to another pile of jagged rocks only to bounce again and gentle land on the ground, where it rolled very slowly, and as if God himself where playing a joke on us it slowly rolled into a rock just right and cracked. We all laughed in amazement, but then I wouldn't have remembered it if it had just smashed like normal, It's hard to remember routine stuff, it's the odd things we remember most.
 
Once, I fell asleep, and I felt like I had lost my arm. I wandered through a weird landscape, that I had never sen, that I had always been in, and whenI awoke, I had slept on my arm, proof that the dream was real.
 
Once I Dreamed I was a butterfly, or am I really a butterfly dreaming I am a man?

Chuang Tzu

Is it romance, reality, idealism, or the ineffable?

You decide.
 
Walking through the night, I can feel ...stuff. I am smarter than you, if you don't feel...stuff. Ummmm...



Crap, I can't pull it off!
 
Actually God doesn't exist for everyone. This is why He created hell. So you can believe whatever you want. Hey it don't bother me none.

Actually you're not judged so much upon what you believe, in as much as what you do with what you believe. In which case you're likely to find many "so-called" Christians in hell.
 
I'm probably the stupedest person here for
asking - but I'm gon'na ask anyway :
What is the purpose of this thread ?
 
Originally posted by drag
I'm probably the stupedest person here for
asking - but I'm gon'na ask anyway :
What is the purpose of this thread ?
I think it's supposed to be a mockery of religious idealism (or faith).
 
  • #10
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Actually God doesn't exist for everyone. This is why He created hell. So you can believe whatever you want. Hey it don't bother me none.

Actually you're not judged so much upon what you believe, in as much as what you do with what you believe. In which case you're likely to find many "so-called" Christians in hell.

No, Gods and Goddesses lve inside of all of us, but outside too, in the gardem of celery and hope. We are judged by the great ,master who sits in the beer keg throne and mumbles incoherently, thereby proving his wisdom.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by Iacchus32
I think it's supposed to be a mockery of religious idealism (or faith).

Mockery? When I see the spoon, and know its place, you say mockery?? I have dreamed of the tower with seven spires, I KNOW!
 
  • #12
if this is a mockery, it is a mockery of people who are obscure, and believe they are deep. Talking like Yoda doesn't make you a Jedi Master...
 
  • #13
if this is a mockery, it is a mockery of people who are obscure, and believe they are deep. Talking like Yoda doesn't make you a Jedi Master...

Oooooohhhhhh, that's so deep. Tell us more oh great one! How do we become like master Yoda!
 
  • #14
Breath deep the gathering gloom ... Watch lights fade from every room.

Bedsitter people look back and lament ... Another day's useless energy spent.

Impassioned lovers wrestle as one ... Lonely man cries for love and has none.

New mother picks up and suckles her son ... Senior Citizens wish they were young.

Cold hearted orb that rules the night ... Removes the colours from our sight.

Red is grey and yellow white ... But we decide which is right ... And which is an illusion? ...
 
  • #15
Originally posted by wuliheron
How do we become like master Yoda!
wooo... You must feel the FORCE inside you ! wooo...
And then you ought to slap your face real hard
and say - What the HELL is all that BS I just
thought about ?! I MUST get real !

Peace and long life.
 
  • #16
It's a mockery?!

Uh, my interpretation was that this is a thread warning against an over-reliance on poetic imagery in philosophy.

Or maybe it's a textual version of one of those ink blotty things...
 
  • #17
Originally posted by FZ+
It's a mockery?!

Uh, my interpretation was that this is a thread warning against an over-reliance on poetic imagery in philosophy.

Or maybe it's a textual version of one of those ink blotty things...
Didn't you read the first post? Can't you see that he's speaking about a very "mystical experience?" Or, is he just mocking the whole idea of it?

While in the second post, BouldHead tries to validate "his ideas" about atheism ... which is kind of a take off from "knocking religion."
 
  • #18
Well, maybe the ink blot thing might be right after all.

Because the case can be made what that the point of the post is that it dealt with issues in a way that cannot be countered logically, and was hence an exercise in obscuration. It all depends on which part you emphasise.
The interruptions and breaks in the timeflow obscure the messages from the past, but the future is like a rainbow trout, swimming in a sea of paperclips.
For example, if you focus on this statement, it seems abundantly clear that there is no relevance to spiritualism.
My children, I see a world beyond this one, that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind.
And if you focus on this statement (notice phrase senses of the mind), the statement can be interpreted as mocking the idea of external reality beyond perception.

And boulderhead's particular interpretation simply reinforces my idea. This is a post about nothing. You fill the nothing with what you find important.
 
  • #19
I sensed that it somehow had something to do with the "mindlessness" of religion? Seeing as how that was the first thing he tossed out ... i.e., "that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind."
 
  • #20
Admit it. That's rather weak. It is a function of the brain that we select and paint over concepts in order to suit a pattern.
 
  • #21
Screw all that crap, I want to be a Jedi! Can't you guys recognize the wisdom of a master when you hear it!
 
  • #22
I don't think that this thread is a mockery, so much as I think that it is an important message to those of us who believe themselves to sound superior, when they start to speak in riddles/visions or say things like "my children".
 
  • #23
Originally posted by wuliheron
Screw all that crap, I want to be a Jedi!
Can't you guys recognize the wisdom of a
master when you hear it!

I think Mentat's response meant (in the same
tone as yours): Go levitate a frog or something !
 
  • #24
Awe... I'm tired of levitating frogs... I want to learn how to fly!
 
  • #25
Originally posted by Mentat
I don't think that this thread is a mockery, so much as I think that it is an important message to those of us who believe themselves to sound superior, when they start to speak in riddles/visions or say things like "my children".
I might agree with this if wasn't for the fact that Zero has conveyed to me, on more than occasion, that the practice of religion was a "mindless endeavor" (in so many words).

I still maintain that it sounds like a mockery of religion, or mysticism, or anything that smacks of it.
 
  • #26
Originally posted by Iacchus32
I might agree with this if wasn't for the fact that Zero has conveyed to me, on more than occasion, that the practice of religion was a "mindless endeavor" (in so many words).

I still maintain that it sounds like a mockery of religion, or mysticism, or anything that smacks of it.

I believe that those with the aforementioned (in my previous post) attitude are the ones who make a mockery of religion, mysticism, etc. I also think that these people are the ones that have influenced people like Zero, to despise such practices.
 
  • #27
Originally posted by wuliheron
Awe... I'm tired of levitating frogs... I want to learn how to fly!

Isn't that the same thing?

(Just kidding, btw)
 
  • #28
Originally posted by FZ+
And if you focus on this statement (notice phrase senses of the mind), the statement can be interpreted as mocking the idea of external reality beyond perception.
Isn't this the basic line of attack taken when mocking religion in this forum? That in fact religion is just a mockery of reality? Don't tell me it hasn't been implicitly implied as such ...
 
  • #29
No. I am saying here Zero sounds like lifegazer.
 
  • #30
Well, being familar with Zero, I can certainly see why one would think this thread is making fun of religion or anyone who doesn't subscribe to the meaningless, mechanical, box full of rocks view of the universe.

On the other hand, in a way, it is very, very, very much similar to that marvelous "Textrium of Existence" thread which did not have so broad a target.