I'm new this -- super force splitting into weak and strong forces?

In summary, the super force in the early universe split into the weak and strong forces due to spontaneous symmetry breaking at high temperatures, which caused the bits of space-time to self-organize into the same configuration. This is similar to how magnets align their atoms at low temperatures. The effect of going to high temperatures is considered unifying the forces into one, as they become the same at a certain energy level. Attraction or repulsion of the forces depends on the charges involved and can change at different energy levels.
  • #1
Mr.CROWLER
18
0
Forgive me if this is a foolish question but, what caused the super force in the early universe to split into the weak and strong forces and obviously without them the universe as we know it wouldn't exsist.
 
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  • #2
Mr.CROWLER said:
Forgive me if this is a foolish question but, what caused the super force in the early universe to split into the weak and strong forces and obviously without them the universe as we know it wouldn't exsist.

Welcome to the PF.

Things usually work best around here when you add web links to what you've been reading about this subject... :smile:
 
  • #3
berkeman said:
Welcome to the PF.

Things usually work best around here when you add web links to what you've been reading about this subject... :smile:

Ok thanks but, it was a documentary.
 
  • #4
Mr.CROWLER said:
Forgive me if this is a foolish question but, what caused the super force in the early universe to split into the weak and strong forces and obviously without them the universe as we know it wouldn't exsist.
Generally the mechanism goes by the name of "spontaneous symmetry breaking". This is a very general mechanism, and occurs in many situations. The super short description is that at high temperatures, the symmetry is observed. But at lower temperatures, the bits of space-time near one another tend to prefer to have similar configurations, so that regions of space-time self-organize into the same configuration. The precise configuration they organize into is random, but it is the same across the local region.

This is analogous to a magnet. Terrestrial magnets at high temperatures don't produce any significant magnetic field because the atoms within them are oriented in random directions. But as you drop the temperature, those atoms like to line up so that their individual magnetic moments point in the same direction. So as the metal cools, those atoms line up together. At high temperatures, there was a symmetry in that no particular direction within the material was special, but at low temperatures there is a magnetic field which picks out a particular direction, breaking directional symmetry.
 
  • #5
Chalnoth said:
Generally the mechanism goes by the name of "spontaneous symmetry breaking". This is a very general mechanism, and occurs in many situations. The super short description is that at high temperatures, the symmetry is observed. But at lower temperatures, the bits of space-time near one another tend to prefer to have similar configurations, so that regions of space-time self-organize into the same configuration. The precise configuration they organize into is random, but it is the same across the local region.

This is analogous to a magnet. Terrestrial magnets at high temperatures don't produce any significant magnetic field because the atoms within them are oriented in random directions. But as you drop the temperature, those atoms like to line up so that their individual magnetic moments point in the same direction. So as the metal cools, those atoms line up together. At high temperatures, there was a symmetry in that no particular direction within the material was special, but at low temperatures there is a magnetic field which picks out a particular direction, breaking directional symmetry.

Thanks a lot for breaking that down for me.
 
  • #6
Chalnoth said:
Generally the mechanism goes by the name of "spontaneous symmetry breaking". This is a very general mechanism, and occurs in many situations. The super short description is that at high temperatures, the symmetry is observed. But at lower temperatures, the bits of space-time near one another tend to prefer to have similar configurations, so that regions of space-time self-organize into the same configuration. The precise configuration they organize into is random, but it is the same across the local region.

This is analogous to a magnet. Terrestrial magnets at high temperatures don't produce any significant magnetic field because the atoms within them are oriented in random directions. But as you drop the temperature, those atoms like to line up so that their individual magnetic moments point in the same direction. So as the metal cools, those atoms line up together. At high temperatures, there was a symmetry in that no particular direction within the material was special, but at low temperatures there is a magnetic field which picks out a particular direction, breaking directional symmetry.

Why is the effect of going to high temperatures considered to be unifying the forces into one force rather than effectively destroying/negating all forces? Is this 'super-force' attractive, repulsive or what?
 
  • #7
Doofy said:
Why is the effect of going to high temperatures considered to be unifying the forces into one force rather than effectively destroying/negating all forces? Is this 'super-force' attractive, repulsive or what?
One way of looking at this is by looking at the effective strengths of the forces. As you go to higher energies, the electromagnetic and strong nuclear forces get effectively weaker, while the weak nuclear force gets effectively stronger. Exactly where the strengths of the forces converge is somewhat model-dependent, but in supersymmetry, they become the same at around ##10^{16}## GeV.

When you get to this energy, all of the force carriers for these three forces would act as if they were different types of the same force carrier.

As for attraction/repulsion, just like the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces, whether or not they are attractive or repulsive at any given time will depend upon the charges involved.
 
  • #8
Chalnoth said:
As you go to higher energies, the electromagnetic and strong nuclear forces get effectively weaker

Doesn't the electromagnetic force get stronger at higher energies (i.e., shorter distance scales)?
 
  • #9
Chalnoth said:
One way of looking at this is by looking at the effective strengths of the forces. As you go to higher energies, the electromagnetic and strong nuclear forces get effectively weaker, while the weak nuclear force gets effectively stronger. Exactly where the strengths of the forces converge is somewhat model-dependent, but in supersymmetry, they become the same at around ##10^{16}## GeV.

When you get to this energy, all of the force carriers for these three forces would act as if they were different types of the same force carrier.

As for attraction/repulsion, just like the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces, whether or not they are attractive or repulsive at any given time will depend upon the charges involved.

Ah right, that does ring a bell actually, I can remember the plot where the lines almost all converge (and when you invoke SUSY it becomes really close) but it's been ages since I last looked into this stuff. I should really know it automatically by now but it just evaporates from my brain so quickly.
 
  • #10
PeterDonis said:
Doesn't the electromagnetic force get stronger at higher energies (i.e., shorter distance scales)?
Yeah, you're right. I misremembered. The EM force does get effectively stronger at higher energies.
 

1. What is the difference between weak and strong forces?

The weak and strong forces are two of the four fundamental forces in the universe. The weak force is responsible for radioactive decay and the fusion of particles, while the strong force is responsible for holding atomic nuclei together. The main difference between them is their strength - the strong force is about 100 times stronger than the weak force.

2. How does the super force split into weak and strong forces?

The super force, also known as the electroweak force, was believed to exist in the early universe. As the universe cooled down, this force split into the weak and electromagnetic forces. This process is known as symmetry breaking, and it gave rise to the four fundamental forces we know today - gravity, electromagnetism, weak, and strong forces.

3. What is the role of the Higgs field in the splitting of the super force?

The Higgs field is a theoretical field that is believed to give mass to particles. In the Standard Model of particle physics, the Higgs field is responsible for the symmetry breaking of the super force into the weak and electromagnetic forces. The Higgs boson, discovered in 2012, is the particle associated with this field.

4. How do the weak and strong forces interact with matter?

The weak force interacts with matter through the exchange of particles called W and Z bosons. These particles are responsible for radioactive decay and the fusion of particles. The strong force, on the other hand, interacts with matter through the exchange of particles called gluons. These particles are responsible for holding atomic nuclei together.

5. Can the weak and strong forces be unified into one force?

Currently, the weak and strong forces are described by separate theories in the Standard Model. However, many physicists are working towards a theory that unifies all four fundamental forces, including the weak and strong forces. This theory is known as the Grand Unified Theory (GUT) and is still a topic of ongoing research and debate in the scientific community.

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