Impendance matching and power transfer

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of impedance matching and power transfer in electrical circuits, particularly focusing on the conditions under which maximum power transfer occurs. Participants explore both theoretical and practical implications, including the effects of load resistance, source resistance, and efficiency in various contexts such as solar panels and high-frequency signal transmission.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the condition for maximum power transfer occurring when the load resistance equals the internal resistance of the source, suggesting that this relates to power dissipation in the source resistance.
  • Others elaborate on the mathematical proof of this condition, noting that below this resistance, more power is dissipated in the source, while above it, less current is available for the load.
  • A participant introduces the concept of complex impedance, stating that maximum power transfer occurs when the load is the complex conjugate of the source impedance, highlighting the importance of matching both resistive and imaginary components.
  • Some participants question the relevance of efficiency in systems with a constant power supply, such as solar panels, suggesting that power loss may not be a concern when the energy source is abundant.
  • Responses indicate that power loss can still impact economic factors and performance, particularly in energy applications and communication links, where efficiency can affect data rates and overall capability.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding the implications of efficiency in solar panel applications, with discussions on the trade-offs between efficiency and cost in selecting solar cells.
  • One participant mentions the concept of the "maximum-power point" in relation to solar cells, suggesting that operational efficiency is still a consideration despite the abundance of sunlight.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the importance of efficiency and the implications of power loss in different contexts. There is no consensus on the necessity of efficiency considerations when using solar panels, as some argue it is less relevant due to the low cost of sunlight, while others emphasize the importance of efficiency for economic and performance reasons.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions regarding the conditions for maximum power transfer and efficiency, including the nature of the power source and the characteristics of the load. The discussion includes references to specific applications, such as solar energy and high-frequency signal transmission, which may have unique constraints and considerations.

duckandcover
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
What is the physical explanation for the power transfer in a circuit being maximum when the
resistance of the system is equal to the internal resistance?

maybe heat loss?

any help would be appreciated as i understand the mathematical proof but do not know much about the physical causes.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
duckandcover said:
What is the physical explanation for the power transfer in a circuit being maximum when the
resistance of the system is equal to the internal resistance?

maybe heat loss?

any help would be appreciated as i understand the mathematical proof but do not know much about the physical causes.

If you assume a fixed source impedance, you now need to figure out what size load gets the highest power transferred to it. With the mathematical (Calculus) proof, you know that there's a maximum in the power when the load resistance is equal to the source resistance.

As to why... Anything below this number, and the majority of power is dissipated in the source resistance (it's a simple voltage divider, and the bigger impedance always drops the most power), despite there being more power pulled from the (ideal) voltage source. Anything higher than this number, and, while there's a greater voltage drop across the load resistor, the increased total resistance means less current is available and hence less power dissipated in the load.

Note that the max power condition isn't used when the power company sends power to you; they want as low of a source resistance as possible. Otherwise, they'd lose half the power in the transmission lines! It is used in electronics to maximize delivery of a low-power signal (e.g. audio and RF) and the complex variant of it (load having the conjugate impedance) is used in order to reduce your apparent power and power bill (though this usually only applies if you're running a business with lots of inductive loads, and not to residential customers).
 
Nice explanation by MATLABdude. One additional point that is often overlooked... When the source impedance is complex, you get the maximum power transfer to the load when the load is the complex conjugate of the source impedance, not equal to it. So basically you are matching the resistive part, but using the opposite Imaginary part.
 
thanks, one other thing i don't understand is when there is a constant power supply cost does not matter eg the sun for solar panels why is efficiency taken into consideration if it doesn't matter that power is lost in the circuit.
 
If you are transferring a high frequency signal from a coax cable such as RG-8 (50 ohm impedance) into a termination, the maximum power transfer occurs when the termination impedance is 50 ohms. If it is higher or lower than 50 ohms, some of the signal is reflected, and the power transfer is less.
 
duckandcover said:
thanks, one other thing i don't understand is when there is a constant power supply cost does not matter eg the sun for solar panels why is efficiency taken into consideration if it doesn't matter that power is lost in the circuit.

Not sure I understand the follow-up question. Power lost is bad in energy applications because you lose money and/or lose capability at the final consumption points. Power lost in communication links means lower data rates for the same error rates.
 
duckandcover said:
thanks, one other thing i don't understand is when there is a constant power supply cost does not matter eg the sun for solar panels why is efficiency taken into consideration if it doesn't matter that power is lost in the circuit.

Like Berkeman, I also don't know if I understand your question. However, efficiencies (conversion of, say, electricity to mechanical work, or incident solar power into output electrical power in the case of your solar cells) are done to give engineers a way to compare the performance of various things.

Is a 1% (incident power to electrical power) solar cell better than a 40% solar cell? Would you use it in your product? What if the 40% efficient cell costs 400 times as much to make? (These numbers are used purely as examples, and are not grounded in real life.

EDIT: As another example, the other way around... Your typical light bulb has an efficiency (converting electrical power to light) of around 5%. Your typical CFL (compact fluorescent light) is around 20% efficient at converting electrical power to light. The variable cost (cost of electricity) is lower, and the fixed cost (cost for the actual bulbs themselves, given that you need to be replacing incandescents more often) is comparable.
 
thanks for the replies.
to clarify the question, when using solar panels unlimited source of energy why is the external load made to bigger to increase the efficiency of the circuit when there is no cost from the sunlight?
 
duckandcover said:
thanks for the replies.
to clarify the question, when using solar panels unlimited source of energy why is the external load made to bigger to increase the efficiency of the circuit when there is no cost from the sunlight?
Sunlight is cheap, but the space to put solar cells in is not. If you need 10 kW peak output, how much more would you pay for 22% efficient solar cells than for 15% solar cells? For transferring solar cell power to a grid, you need to use a PWM (pulse width modulation) converter, because the solar cell voltage output depends slightly on the insolation (solar light intensity).
 
  • #10
duckandcover said:
thanks for the replies.
to clarify the question, when using solar panels unlimited source of energy why is the external load made to bigger to increase the efficiency of the circuit when there is no cost from the sunlight?

... And read about the "maximum-power point" of operation at this wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell#Maximum-power_point

.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
33
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K