Undergrad Impossible to lift the identity map on the circle

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The discussion centers on the impossibility of lifting the identity map from the circle S^1 to the real numbers R while maintaining continuity. It is argued that any continuous choice of angle function would require a change of 2π as one traverses the circle, which contradicts the definition of continuity. The conversation explores the implications of this contradiction using concepts such as bijections, homeomorphisms, and fundamental groups. A key point is that while R can be homeomorphic to S^1, the fundamental group of a closed interval is trivial, while that of S^1 is isomorphic to the integers, leading to a contradiction. Ultimately, the conclusion is that a continuous lift L cannot exist.
PsychonautQQ
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Suppose that L: ##S^1## ---> ##R## is a lift of the identity map of ##S^1##, where e is the covering map from ##R## to ##S^1##, where ##R## is the real numbers and ##S^1## is the circle.

Then the equation e * L = ##Id_{S^1}## (where * is composition) means that 2*pi*L is a continuous choice of angle function on the circle. it is intuitively evident that this cannot exist, because any choice of angle function would have to change by 2*pi as one goes around the circle, and thus could not be continuous on the whole circle.How does the angle function changing by 2*pi as one goes around the circle imply that it could not be continuous on the whole circle?
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PsychonautQQ said:
Suppose that L: ##S^1## ---> ##R## is a lift of the identity map of ##S^1##, where e is the covering map from ##R## to ##S^1##, where ##R## is the real numbers and ##S^1## is the circle.

Then the equation e * L = ##Id_{S^1}## (where * is composition) means that 2*pi*L is a continuous choice of angle function on the circle. it is intuitively evident that this cannot exist, because any choice of angle function would have to change by 2*pi as one goes around the circle, and thus could not be continuous on the whole circle.How does the angle function changing by 2*pi as one goes around the circle imply that it could not be continuous on the whole circle?
P.S. Crossing fingers for LaTeX to work out...
P.S.S. Woot!
You need to have a topology defined on ##S^1 ## to be able to talk about continuity. Are you seeing ##S^1## as a metric space with the chordal? Subspace? etc. metric?
 
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Rather than using angles, I find it easier to approach the proof as follows:

Since ##e\circ L## is an injection, ##L## must be too. Therefore ##L## is a bijection from ##S^1## to I am ##L\subset \mathbb R##.

Since ##e\circ L=Id_{S^1}##, ##e^\dagger\equiv e|_{{\mathrm Im}\ L}## is an inverse map of ##L## and, as a submap of a covering map, is continuous. Hence ##\mathbb R## contains a homeomorphic image I am ##L## of ##S^1##. But ##S^1## is compact and connected, so I am ##L## must be too (by continuity of ##L##), from which we can deduce (omitting several steps) that I am ##L## is a closed interval.

But the fundamental group of a closed interval is the trivial group of one element, whereas the fundamental group of ##S^1## is isomorphic to the integers, so the image cannot be homeomorphic, which gives a contradiction, and we conclude that ##L## cannot be continuous.

On reflection, that last step uses some heavy machinery - fundamental groups - that may not be necessary. Let's try without that.

If L is continuous then we have a closed interval ##C=[u,v]\subset \mathbb R## that is homeomorphic to ##S^1## via ##L## and ##e^\dagger## that are each other's inverses. Can we get a contradiction from that?
Hint: think of how we can surgically 'disconnect' an interval and whether the same procedure works on a circle.
 
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Along what Andrew was saying, elaborating on both approaches, it if we use the induced map ## f_{*}## on the (first) fundamental group, we have ##f_{*}\ [a] := \[f{a]]=0 ## Then use the fact that if f is a covering map then the induced map of a covering map is injective, to get a contradiction. EDIT:

The map is given by ##p(x):=(sin 2\pi x, cos2 \pi x )##. Pull back an open set in the right ( or, equiv. left) half of ##S^1 ## to get a union of open intervals, each homeomorphic to ##S^1## (by definition of covering map) and restrict it to a compact set. Then the restriction to a compact set is a homeomorphism , using the simple but powerful result that a continuous bijection from Compact into Hausdorff is a homeomorphism, which cannot happen by what Andrew said, the connectivity number. Much nicer idea than my much clunkier proof.
 
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We all know the definition of n-dimensional topological manifold uses open sets and homeomorphisms onto the image as open set in ##\mathbb R^n##. It should be possible to reformulate the definition of n-dimensional topological manifold using closed sets on the manifold's topology and on ##\mathbb R^n## ? I'm positive for this. Perhaps the definition of smooth manifold would be problematic, though.

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