Improve and Secure Your Cipher: Expert Tips and Feedback

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a newly created mathematical cipher, with participants providing feedback on its security, potential vulnerabilities, and suggestions for improvement. The scope includes theoretical analysis and practical considerations regarding cipher design and security.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confidence in the cipher's security but invites others to attempt to crack it.
  • Another participant questions the effectiveness of the key, suggesting that it may be easy to deduce possible keys based on the fractional parts of the numbers used.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of dividing integers, with one participant questioning the possibility of obtaining an irrational number from such operations.
  • A participant discusses the potential for determining the key based on observed encrypted words, suggesting that knowledge of the key's characteristics could be exploited.
  • One contributor argues that modern cipher security relies on the algorithm being publicly known, and that brute force attacks could compromise the cipher if the key space is small.
  • Another participant asserts that division of integers will always yield a rational number, countering the earlier speculation about irrational results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the security of the cipher, with no consensus reached on its effectiveness or the implications of its design choices. Multiple competing perspectives on key security and potential vulnerabilities remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the nature of the key and the mathematical properties of the cipher, which may not be fully explored or resolved. The implications of using specific numerical representations and the impact on security are also noted but not conclusively addressed.

anarkest
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I don't think the key improves security. It should not be too difficult to look at the fractional parts and decide what numbers are possible keys (depending on how many digits are given). And depending on how many digits you give, you may also clip letters from the end of long words.
 
what if the division gives irrational number?
 
PrakashPhy said:
what if the division gives irrational number?

What if dividing two integers gives an irrational number?

I dare say you probably don't care what the message is anymore.

The simplest attack on this is obviously the fact that you need a key.

A lot of work might be able to be done to determine what the key is even if somebody doesn't know. For example, if I see that one of your encrypted words is .015 I know that your key must be relatively large, so starts with a letter near the end of the alphabet. I'm sure that some number theory could be used to drive home at possible keys.

There's no real reason to break up your numbers into blocks of 8 besides this cell phone thing. Usually characters are broken up into blocks so that when transmitted you don't give away what the word lengths are. You don't have such a problem here, and it could make it harder to decrypt if you use different length codewords, because then you'll be transmitting a wider range of numbers. This would mean that the intercepting party has no idea how long the codeword is which would probably be a good thingOne good thing is to not send over the whole decimal, which is how you presented it. Otherwise I could simply find what the decimal is in smallest form and then just scale it upwards until the numerator and denominator both fit the pattern necessary for a codeword. I tried that on two of the decimal numbers you had and it doesn't work because you don't get the full number
 
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My initial thought is that the security of modern ciphers is such that knowledge of the algorithm, which is typically publicly available, does not jeopardize the security of the cipher. In your case, if I know the algorithm, a simple brute force attack on the key space should crack the cipher, since I need only to multiply each cipher text word with different keys. Now, the security of your cipher certainly improves as you make the key longer. However, now you must also make the world length longer. In the limit that the key becomes equal in length to the plain text message, you have the well known one-time pad, which is indeed provably secure (in the event that your key is truly random and used only once).
 
PrakashPhy said:
what if the division gives irrational number?
That can't possibly happen. Both numbers involved in the division are integers, so the quotient will necessarily be rational. By definition, a rational number is the quotient of two integers.
 

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