Inclusion/Exclusion Combinatorics

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around combinatorial problems, specifically focusing on permutations and the application of the Inclusion/Exclusion Principle. The original poster seeks to determine the number of permutations of the set {1,2,3,4,5,6,7} where exactly four integers are in their natural positions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the use of the Inclusion/Exclusion Principle and consider alternative methods involving combinations and derangements. Questions arise regarding the correctness of these approaches and the calculation of derangement values.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing feedback on proposed methods and calculations. Some participants express agreement with the approaches taken, while others seek clarification on related concepts such as non-recursive formulas and recurrence relations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through combinatorial concepts and recurrence relations, with some uncertainty about definitions and the nature of the problems being discussed. There is an emphasis on finding closed-form solutions and understanding the implications of different types of formulas.

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Homework Statement



Determine the number of permutations of {1,2,3,4,5,6,7} in which exactly four integers are in there natural positions.

The Attempt at a Solution



Would this be solved by using the Inclusion/Exclusion Principle and finding

[tex] \left|S\right| - \sum \left|A_{1}\right| + \sum \left|A_{1} \cap A_{2}\right| -...[/tex]

where i={1,2,3,4,5,6,7}
 
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Wait the easier way to do this would be to say there are

[tex] \begin{pmatrix}7\\4\end{pmatrix}[/tex]

while the other 3 integers will form a derangement, so the answer would be

[tex] \begin{pmatrix}7\\4\end{pmatrix} D_{3}[/tex]

Is that correct?
 
Yes. What is your value for D3?
 
Came out to 2 so my answer was 70
 
It seems good to me.
 
Is a non-recursive formula a formula that only works for a given function and parameters?
 
What do you mean given function and parameters? As far as I know, a non-recursive formula is one not defined in terms of previous terms.
 
Well the question states as follows:

The sequence [tex]f_n[/tex] is defined by [tex]f_0=f_1=2[/tex] and

[tex]f_n = (\frac{f_{n-1}+2f_{n-2}}{6})[/tex], when [tex]n\geq2[/tex].

Find a non-recursive formula for [tex]f_n[/tex]
 
It's asking you to find a formula for fn only in terms of n, not fanything.
 
  • #10
so you need to only find f as a function of n alone
 
  • #11
So its the same as finding a recurrence relation?
 
  • #12
What you gave in the problem is the recurrence relation. You need to find what is called a "closed form." From Wikipedia: Solving a recurrence relation means obtaining a closed-form solution: a non-recursive function of n.
 
  • #13
Shoot, not really sure how to do that...
 
  • #14
would it be the same as this problem:

solve the recurrence relation [tex]h_n = 5h_{n-1}+6h_{n-2}[/tex]

subject to the initial values [tex]h_0 = 1[/tex] and [tex]h_1 = -2[/tex]
 
  • #15
It is similar enough that the same solution technique would likely work on both.
 
  • #16
I will attempt that and post if I run into trouble. Thanks.
 

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