Induced Electrical Field (Maxwell-Faraday's Law)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of induced electric fields as described by Maxwell-Faraday's Law, particularly focusing on the relationship between time-varying magnetic fields and the resulting electric fields that drive current in conductors. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical interpretations, and the nature of these induced fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how a time-varying magnetic field leads to the conclusion of an induced electric field, questioning the direct connection between current and the magnetic field.
  • Another participant argues that there cannot be a direct connection between current and the time-varying magnetic field, citing that current can vary with material conductivity, suggesting that the changing magnetic field produces an electric field instead.
  • A participant challenges the notion that the electric field only exists at the surface of the conductor, indicating that the skin depth is not zero even in superconductors.
  • One participant proposes that the current density in the conductor is proportional to the electric field, noting that while conductivity is not infinite, the electric field can approach zero but not reach it for fixed current density.
  • Another participant suggests interpreting Faraday's law as indicating that a time-varying magnetic field generates an electric "vortex field," emphasizing that the sources of electromagnetic fields are charge and current distributions.
  • This participant also describes a method to measure the electric vortex field using a voltmeter and relates it to the induced current due to the electric field from the time-varying magnetic field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the induced electric field and its relationship to the time-varying magnetic field. There is no consensus on the interpretations or implications of these concepts, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding the behavior of electric fields within conductors, the role of conductivity, and the interpretation of Faraday's law, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

DirecSa
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As we know that the magnetic induction causes an electric current in a wire and Faraday has formulated his Electromotive equation ##\epsilon=-\frac{d\Phi}{dt}##. And then Maxwell-Faraday's equation is: ##\nabla \times E=-\frac{\partial B}{\partial t}##, until now this was just an introduction. My confusion is how one could conclude that there is an electric field which is motive the charges in a conductor (wire) to move after exposure to time-varying magnetic field... What I mean is if I get the result as Faraday did then I will expect that there is a direct connection between the current and the time-varying magnetic field and I start to research more about this, and not that the time-varying magnetic field produces an electric field and then this electric field makes the charges moves in the wire, and by the way I can't understand how this electric field causes the charges to move since this electric field is at the surface and can't be inside a conductor.

In short, how one can conclude from such experiment that there is an induced electrical field that is produced due to the time-varying magnetic field and not some another direct phenomena that should be investigated?.. In addition, the nature of this induced electrical field, how it makes the charges move?

Note: I know that this is non-conservative electrical field and the logic that electromotive in such case with no battery should exist and the closed path integral of electric field should be non-zero.. but still I have the confusion.. :/

Thank you in advance :)
 
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DirecSa said:
I will expect that there is a direct connection between the current and the time-varying magnetic field
There cannot be a direct connection between the current and the time-varying magnetic field because you can change the current by changing the material. More conductive materials have higher currents, which indicates that the changing B field produces an E field and not a current directly.

DirecSa said:
by the way I can't understand how this electric field causes the charges to move since this electric field is at the surface and can't be inside a conductor
This is incorrect. Perhaps you are thinking about the skin depth? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect But the skin depth is not zero even for superconductors.
 
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DirecSa said:
In short, how one can conclude from such experiment that there is an induced electrical field that is produced due to the time-varying magnetic field and not some another direct phenomena that should be investigated?.. In addition, the nature of this induced electrical field, how it makes the charges move?

I think this is because the current density in the conductor is proportional to the electric field, that is ## ~ J = α E ~## , where ## ~E~ ## is the electric field and ## ~α~ ## is the electrical conductivity.

Please note that in practical applications, the conductivity of the conductor will not be infinite, so for a fixed current density, the value of the electric field can only be close to zero, but it will not be zero.
 
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I think the confusion is due to the idea that a time-varying magnetic field is the source of an electric field. One should rather interpret Faraday's law such that if there is a time-varying magnetic field than there is also an electric "vortex field". The sources of the electromagnetic field are charge and current distributions.

Of course you can measure the electric vortex field due to a time varying magnetic field by short-circuiting a voltmeter by a wire loop (for simplicity keeping the entire thing at rest). Then from Faraday's Law you get, using Stokes's integral theorem
$$\mathcal{E}=\int_{\partial A} \mathrm{d} \vec{r} \cdot \vec{E}=-\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d} t} \int_{A} \mathrm{d}^2 \vec{f} \cdot \vec{B}.$$
This "electromotive force" is what your voltmeter will measure. If you think of it as a good old Galvanometer what's in fact is measured is the (small) current induced by the electric field due to the time varying magnetic field.
 
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Thanks for all of you :)
 

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