Infinitesimals' rates of approaching 0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of comparing the rates at which different infinitesimals approach zero. Participants explore the definitions and implications of "speed" in this context, considering mathematical expressions and ratios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a higher order infinitesimal approaches zero faster or slower than a lower order one.
  • Another suggests taking the ratio of the two infinitesimals to analyze their rates of approaching zero.
  • A participant provides examples, stating that ##x^3## approaches zero faster than ##x^2## when ##x## is within the interval (-1, 1).
  • Concerns are raised about the rigorous expression of the relationship between the two infinitesimals, particularly regarding the definition of speed in this context.
  • Another participant elaborates on defining speed by comparing magnitudes or using ratios, noting that the context can influence how one determines which function approaches zero faster.
  • Different criteria for defining "speed" are discussed, including the use of limits and the behavior of functions as they approach zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to define and compare the rates at which infinitesimals approach zero. There is no consensus on a single method or definition, indicating an ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying definitions of speed, the need for rigorous mathematical expressions, and the potential for ambiguity in comparing infinitesimals.

feynman1
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When comparing 2 infinitesimals, does the higher order one approach 0 faster or slower?
 
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Why don't you take the ratio of the two to see it ?
 
anuttarasammyak said:
Why don't you take the ratio of the two to see it ?
I know how to do the maths, here I'm asking just about the statement.
 
##x^3## goes to zero faster than ##x^2##, ##|x^3|<|x^2|##, when x of -1< x < 1 approaches to zero.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
##x^3## goes to zero faster than ##x^2##, ##|x^3|<|x^2|##, when x of -1< x < 1 approaches to zero.
how did you define speed/fast
 
I am sorry to say I do not have confidence on my rigorous use of mathematics and English how to express ##|x^3|<|x^2|## for ##|x|<1## which approaches zero or is numerical sequence ##x_n## such that
\forall \epsilon&gt;0\ \exists N \ \ N&lt;n\ \ |x_n|&lt;\epsilon
 
Last edited:
feynman1 said:
how did you define speed/fast

Usually speed is defined by looking at a ratio or just comparing magnitudes If ##f(0)=g(0)=0## and f and g are continuous at 0, we could say ##g(x)## goes to 0 faster than ##f(x)## if ##|g(\epsilon)| < |f(\epsilon)| ## for all sufficiently small ##\epsilon##. Sometimes you want to break ties a bit blunter - e.g. you might want to say that ##\sin(x)## and ##x## go to 0 at the same speed, so you would want ##|g(\epsilon)/f(\epsilon)| < 1## to say ##g## goes to zero faster. Sometimes you really want things like ##x## and ##2x## to count as going to 0 at the same speed, in which case you might require the ratio to go to 0 as ##\epsilon## goes to 0. It really depends on the context and why you are trying to pick one thing going to zero faster than the other.

I would say the most common context is you have several terms you're adding together and you want to ignore one entirely, in which case you would probably say ##g## goes to 0 faster than ##f## if ##\lim_{x\to 0} g(x)/f(x)=0##
 
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