Integral help from S.R. and G.R. physicsforums

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Point Conception
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integral
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating a specific integral related to special and general relativity, particularly focusing on the elapsed time on an accelerating clock. Participants explore various substitution methods and integral transformations, with references to calculus techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests help evaluating an integral mentioned in a previous thread, indicating a lack of understanding of the necessary calculus concepts.
  • Another participant suggests a simple substitution method, specifically using \( x = \frac{\cos u}{\sqrt{a}} \), to facilitate the integration process.
  • A participant describes the calculation of elapsed time as an integral involving the velocity function \( v(t) \), providing specific values and a detailed integral expression to evaluate.
  • Further, a participant recommends using the substitution \( x = \sin(u) \) for integrands of the form \( \sqrt{1 - x^2} \), explaining how this leads to a simpler integral involving \( \cos(u) \).
  • Another participant elaborates on transforming the integral \( \int \sqrt{1 - ax^2} dx \) using previous substitution methods and discusses the implications of trigonometric identities on the integration process.
  • One participant acknowledges a suggestion from another regarding substitution choice, noting that it may yield a more straightforward solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various substitution methods and approaches to the integral, but there is no consensus on a single preferred method. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple perspectives on how to tackle the integral.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on different assumptions regarding substitution techniques and integral transformations, which may affect the evaluation process. Some steps in the integration are not fully resolved, and the discussion includes various mathematical identities that are referenced but not universally agreed upon.

Point Conception
Gold Member
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
1,879
Would someone evaluate this integral:
See Physics Forums -Special and General Relativity above.
On page one with title: Elapsed time on accelerating clock. by morrobay.
In particular reply # 4 by JesseM .
I seem to be missing something with The Integrator reference.
And one semester calculus , (Thomas ) is not enough.
thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Try a simple substitution, [tex]x=\frac{\cos u}{\sqrt{a}}[/tex]
 
Integral help from S.R. and G.R physicsforums

JesseM said:
If you calculate the velocity as a function of time v(t) of C in the frame of A, then between two coordinate times [tex]t_0[/tex] and [tex]t_1[/tex] in A, the elapsed time on C would be [tex]\int_{t_0}^{t_1} \sqrt{1 - v(t)^2 / c^2} \, dt[/tex]. If the elapsed time in A's frame is 105.6 days = 9.124 * 10^6 s, and v(t) in A is 9.81*t m/s (so v(t)^2 = 96.24*t^2 m^2/s^2), then to calculate the elapsed time you'd evaluate the integral [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 96.24*t^2 / 8.98755 * 10^{16}} \, dt[/tex] = [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 1.071 * 10^<br /> {-15} *t^2} \, dt[/tex]. You can enter Sqrt[1 - a x^2] into the integrator to see how to evaluate this integral.

If that substitution is simple for you or anyone else I would like to see it
 
Then look in any introductory calculus book!

Since cos2(u)= 1- sin2(u), setting x= sin(u) is a "natural" choice for any integrand of the form [itex]\sqrt{1- x^2}dx[/itex]. With x= sin(u), that [itex]\sqrt{1- x^2}= \sqrt{1- sin^2(u)}= cos(u)[/itex] and dx= cos(u)du. [itex]\int \sqrt{1- x^2} dx= \int cos^2(u)du[/itex] which can be integrated using the trig identity "cos2(u)= (1/2)(1+ cos(2u))".

If you have integrand [itex]\sqrt{a^2- x^2}[/itex] just factor out the "a2": [itex]a\sqrt{1- x^2/a^2}[/itex] and obvious substitution is x/a= sin(u).
 
[tex]\int \sqrt{ 1- ax^2} dx[/tex]

Make the substitution from the previous post.

Then [tex]dx = - \frac{\sin u}{\sqrt{a}}[/tex].

The integral is then transformed into;
[tex]\int \sqrt{ 1- a \cdot \frac{\cos^2 u}{a} } ( - \frac{\sin u}{\sqrt{a}}) du[/tex].

Constants may be taken out of an integral, and [tex]1 - \cos^2 u = \sin^2 u[/tex] by the Pythagorean Identity.

[tex]-\frac{1}{\sqrt{a}} \int \sin^2 u du[/tex]

[tex]\sin^2 u = \frac{1 - \cos (2u)}{2}[/tex] which is verifiable by the double angle identity; [itex]\cos (2t) = \cos^2 t - \sin^2 t[/itex].

[tex]-\frac{1}{\sqrt{a}} \int \left( \frac{1}{2} - \frac{2 \cos (2u)}{4} du \right)[/tex]

Split the integral and in the second one, let w= 2u, so dw= 2 du.
[tex]= -\frac{1}{\sqrt{a}} \left( \frac{u}{2} - \frac{\sin (2u)}{4} \right)[/tex]

where [tex]x= \frac{\cos u}{\sqrt{a}}[/tex], or [tex]u = \arccos \left( \sqrt{a}u\right)[/tex]

EDIT: Just saw halls post, should have chosen his substitution because the signs work out more nicely, but this still works out fine.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
8K