Integral Problem: Non-Zero Continuous Function R to R Solution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether there exists a non-zero continuous function, f, from the real numbers to the real numbers such that the integral of f over the interval (c, c²+1) equals zero for all real numbers c. Participants explore various approaches to this problem, including formal mathematical reasoning and graphical visualization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests constructing a primitive function F(c) such that F(c²+1) = F(c), implying that if such a function can be found, then f would be its derivative.
  • Another participant clarifies the definition of a non-zero function, indicating that it can be zero at specific points while remaining non-zero elsewhere, and discusses the implications of using Lebesgue integrals.
  • A later reply argues that the existence of the function f is equivalent to finding a strictly increasing or decreasing differentiable function F such that F(c²+1) = F(c), but concludes that such a function cannot exist based on derivative relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of the function f. While some explore the possibility of constructing such a function, others argue against its existence based on mathematical reasoning. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of continuity and differentiability in their arguments, and there are references to specific mathematical properties that may affect the existence of the function f. The discussion also highlights the potential ambiguity in the definition of "non-zero."

Wicketer
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Is there a non-zero continuous function, f, R -> R such that ∫f(x) dx over (c, c^2+1) = 0, for all c in R? Hope this makes sense. I've been trying to find a more formal way of approaching this rather than just visualizing it with graphs. Any thoughts?

Many thanks.
 
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Try to see if you can built a primitive F(c) such that F(c²+1)=F(c) .
If you can find one, then f is its derivative.

I guess it might be useful to observe that c²+1 > c .
Defining F in the interval [0,1] might be all that is necessary.
Will F be continuous, will its derivative be continuous, ?

Did you give the full statement of the question?

Try to graph such a function.
Give it a try.
 
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Generally, the "zero-function" is f(x)= 0 for all x so that "non- zero" means "not equal to 0 for at least one x". But we can have f(x)= 0 for x= 1, non-zero for x not equal to 0, and its Riemann integral, \int_a^b f(x)dx, from any a to any b, is non-zero. If you use the Lebesque function, then we can have f(x) equal to zero on any set of measure 0 and have \int_a^b f(x)d\mu non-zero.
 
following up on maajdl's comment, the existence of such a function f is equivalent to the existence of a strictly increasing or decreasing differentiable function F : R --> R such that F(c^2+1) = F(c).

But, it is easily seen that no such function can exist, because the derivative of F(x^2+1) is equal to the derivative of F(x), which means that 2xf(x^2+1) = f(x). Plugging in x = 0 shows that f(0) = 0. Assuming you mean non-zero as in f can not take the value 0.
 

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