Integrating Tensor on Riemannian 2-Manifold at Point p

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of a tensor of order 1 (momentum) on a Riemannian 2-manifold, specifically a sphere, and the implications for conservation of linear momentum using intrinsic quantities. Participants explore the validity of methods involving parallel vector fields and the application of Stokes's theorem in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of defining a parallel vector field on the manifold, arguing that different fields yield different results for the integration of the tensor.
  • Another participant asserts that integrating 1-forms on a 2-manifold is not possible and suggests using closed paths or Stokes's theorem to assess conservation.
  • A participant acknowledges that the local neighborhood is locally Euclidean but emphasizes that curvature cannot be ignored in a finite part of the surface.
  • Further, a participant explains the derivation involving the stress tensor and the balance of linear momentum, questioning the validity of the method and seeking alternative approaches to achieve similar results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the integration of tensors on Riemannian manifolds, with no consensus on the validity of using parallel vector fields or the proposed derivation involving Stokes's theorem. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to integrate the tensor and assess momentum conservation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of parallel vector fields, the nature of integration on curved surfaces, and the challenges of defining closed loops mathematically.

GPPaille
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I have a riemannian 2-manifold (Let's say a sphere) and a tensor of order 1 (momentum), defined on the manifold. I want to integrate the tensor on a local neighborhood around a point p.

More precisely, I want to know if the linear momentum is conserved on that part of the manifold using only intrinsic quantities. In a book, they say that they define a parallel vector field on that neighborhood so they can do a dot product between the two tensors. But I'm really not convinced of this method because there no "absolute" parallel field on surface and each field will give different result.

How can I do that?
 
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You can't integrate 1-forms on a 2-manifold. If you want to find out whether it's conserved, you can either integrate it around every possible closed path, or find out whether it's closed and use Stokes's theorem.
 
wouldnt your local neighborhood be locally euclidean?
 
siyphsc:
Yes but I consider a finite part of the surface, where curvature can't be ignored.

zhentil:
I know that I can't integrate a 1-form, that's why they define another vector field so they do a dot product and obtain a scalar. Integrating this scalar is supposed to give the momentum component in the direction of the vector field. The ultimate goal is to fully understand the derivation of the Navier-Stokes equations on a manifold, and the only book I know do it the way I explained above. They use Stokes theorem, here's what they say:

T^{ab} is the stress tensor, V^{a} (resp. A^a) is the velocity (resp. acceleration) of the fluid and \rho is the density. Let an arbitrary parallel field of covariant surface vectors l_b be defined on the surface. If we make a balance of linear momentum in the direction of the parallel field,

\frac{d}{dt}\int_S{\int{\rho V^a l_a dA}} = \int_S{\int{\rho A^a l_a dA}}=\oint_C{T^{ab}m_a l_b ds}

Where S is a finite part of the surface, C is the boundary of S and m_a is a vector normal to the curve C and tangent to S. Using Stokes theorem we have

\int_S{\int{\left[\rho A^a - T^{ab}_{,b}\right] l_a dA}} = 0

Since S and l_a are arbitrary,

\rho A^a = T^{ab}_{,b}

So the first question, is it valid (and why). If it's not, how can I obtain the same kind of result using a correct derivation. Integrating over all closed loops seems hard to define mathematically.
 
Last edited:

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