Integrating the Cartesian form of Coulomb's law

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the potential energy between two opposite charges using Coulomb's law, specifically focusing on the integration in Cartesian coordinates rather than polar coordinates. The original poster expresses urgency in understanding the integration process for a dipole configuration, indicating a need for clarity in the Cartesian approach.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the integration of the force in Cartesian coordinates, with one suggesting the expansion of the dot product in Cartesian form. The original poster presents their integration attempts and expresses confusion about an extra factor of three that appears in their result compared to the polar form.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered hints and guidance on how to approach the integration, including suggestions for defining a proper path for the integral. The discussion reflects ongoing exploration of the problem, with various interpretations of the integration process being considered.

Contextual Notes

The original poster emphasizes a desire to avoid converting from polar to Cartesian coordinates and seeks a direct method for integration in Cartesian form. There is also a mention of the need for this understanding to tackle a more complex problem involving moving charges.

haaj86
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Hi, I want to calculate the potential energy between two opposite charges (a dipole) and I know how to integrate Coulomb’s law in the polar form, i.e. in terms of “r”

\[<br /> U=\int\mathbf{F}d\mathbf{r}=-\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\int\frac{1}{\mathbf{r^{2}}}d\mathbf{r}=\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\frac{1}{r}\]

But I want to know how to integrate it when it’s in the Cartesian form i.e.

\[<br /> F(x,y,z)=\frac{qQ}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\frac{1}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{\frac{3}{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c}<br /> x\\<br /> y\\<br /> z\end{array}\right)\]

Please I need this urgently, and I’m more interested on how to do the integral because I need this for a much more complicated problem that involves moving charges but if I can’t do it for the stationary charges then I can’t do it for that problem. Please I don’t want anybody to suggest integrating the force in the polar form and then changing the variables to Cartesian because as I said I need to know how to do the integral.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Exactly where are you stuck? Can you expand the dot product \vec F \cdot d \vec r in Cartesian coordinates?
 
Thanks jtbell, good hint, I stupidly forgot that it's a dot product.
But I have another problem now and this is what I got
\[<br /> U=\int\mathbf{F}.\mathbf{dr}\]<br /> and in the cartesian form we have \[<br /> \mathbf{r}=x\mathbf{\hat{x}}+y\mathbf{\hat{y}}+z\mathbf{\hat{z}}\]
\[<br /> \mathbf{\hat{r}}=\frac{x\mathbf{\hat{x}}+y\mathbf{\hat{y}}+z\mathbf{\hat{z}}}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{1/2}}\]
\[<br /> d\mathbf{r}=dx\mathbf{\hat{x}}+dy\mathbf{\hat{y}}+dz\mathbf{\hat{z}}\]<br /> Therefore \[<br /> U=-\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\int\frac{1}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{3/2}}(x\mathbf{\hat{x}}+y\mathbf{\hat{y}}+z\mathbf{\hat{z}}).(dx\mathbf{\hat{x}}+dy\mathbf{\hat{y}}+dz\mathbf{\hat{z}})\]
\[<br /> U=-\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\{\int\frac{xdx}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{3/2}}+\int\frac{ydy}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{3/2}}+\int\frac{zdz}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{3/2}}\}\]
\[<br /> U=-\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\{-\frac{1}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{1/2}}-\frac{1}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{1/2}}-\frac{1}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{1/2}}\}\]
\[<br /> U=\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\frac{3}{[x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}]^{1/2}}=\frac{3e^{2}}{4\pi\epsilon_{0}}\frac{1}{r}\]

So there is an extra 3 in comparison with polar form shown in my first post.

Where did I go wrong?
 
This is a path integral:

U = - \int_{{\vec r}_0}^{\vec r_{final}}{\vec F \cdot d \vec r}

so you have to pick a starting point {\vec r}_0 at infinity, then set up a path from that point to the point where you want the potential energy. (Imagine holding one charge fixed at the origin and moving the other charge in from infinity along that path.) Then integrate along that path.

You're using Cartesian coordinates, so path integrals are easier to do if they're made of segments along or parallel to the x, y and z axes.

For example, you could start at (x, y, z) = (+\infty, 0, 0) and set up a path to (x_{final}, y_{final}, z_{final}) with three straight-line segments. You pick the segments!

Simply integrating the x, y and z integrals from \infty to x_{final}, \infty to y_{final}, and \infty to z_{final} respectively, doesn't define a proper path. I've been groping unsuccesfully for a way to put the reason why into words...
 
not so much as a thank you?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K