Integration - Find all functions f(x)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding all functions \( f(x) \) that satisfy the equation \(\left(\int \frac{dx}{f(x)}\right)\left(\int f(x) \,dx\right)=c\), where \( c \) is a constant. Participants explore various families of functions and methods to approach the problem, including differentiation and relationships between functions and their antiderivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose specific functions like \( f(x) = e^{ax} \) and generalizations such as \( f(x) = ae^{bx} \) as potential solutions.
  • Others express uncertainty about whether trying families of functions constitutes "guessing" as per the problem's instructions.
  • One participant derives a relationship involving the integrals of \( f(x) \) and suggests that the solution involves a differential equation.
  • Another participant confirms that the relationship derived leads to a family of solutions, reiterating that it aligns with earlier guesses.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the derived relationships and the potential need for differential equations to fully solve the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement on the validity of certain functions while also debating the methods used to arrive at those functions. There is no consensus on a single method or solution, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to find all functions \( f(x) \).

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may involve assumptions about the nature of \( f(x) \) and its antiderivative, as well as the implications of differentiating the original equation. The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem and the various mathematical techniques that could be applied.

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Find all functions $f(x)$ so that $\left(\int \frac{dx}{f(x)}\right)\left(\int f(x) \,dx\right)=c$, constant.

The question says "no guessing". I looked at families of functions, starting with $f(x)=a$, $f(x)=x^n$, and $f(x)=\sin\left({x}\right)$, but they all fail. Any hints? (Wondering)
 
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Rido12 said:
Find all functions $f(x)$ so that $\left(\int \frac{dx}{f(x)}\right)\left(\int f(x) \,dx\right)=c$, constant.

The question says "no guessing". I looked at families of functions, starting with $f(x)=a$, $f(x)=x^n$, and $f(x)=\sin\left({x}\right)$, but they all fail. Any hints? (Wondering)

Hmm... how about $f(x)=e^{ax}$? (Wondering)
 
That works! :D I mainly posted my question to see if there was a better method of solving the problem instead of going through all elementary functions, but yeah. The question says: "Note: simply guessing an $f(x)$ that satisfies the equation is worth only 1 mark.", so I wasn't sure whether guessing families of $f(x)$ and trying them is considered "guessing". What do you think? (Wondering)
 
Rido12 said:
That works! :D I mainly posted my question to see if there was a better method of solving the problem instead of going through all elementary functions, but yeah. The question says: "Note: simply guessing an $f(x)$ that satisfies the equation is worth only 1 mark.", so I wasn't sure whether guessing families of $f(x)$ and trying them is considered "guessing". What do you think? (Wondering)

I'm not sure. It seems as if we should do something more. (Thinking)

We can at least generalize to $f(x)=ae^{bx}$, which also satisfies the equation with a condition on $b$ that is related to $c$. So at least we're not guessing a single $f(x)$.

The suggestion is there though, that we're supposed to come up with a smarter method to find all f(x), or otherwise that we should prove that we've found all of them.
 
Given $\displaystyle \int\frac{1}{f(x)}dx\cdot \int f(x)dx =c.........(1)$

Now Differentiate both side w. r to $x$, We Get

$\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{f(x)}dx\cdot f(x)+\frac{1}{f(x)}\cdot \int f(x)dx = 0.............(2)$

Now from equation $(1)$, We get $\displaystyle \int\frac{1}{f(x)}dx = \frac{c}{\int f(x)dx}$

and put into equation $(2)$, We get $\displaystyle \frac{c\cdot f(x)}{\int f(x)dx}+\frac{\int f(x)dx}{f(x)} = 0$

So $\displaystyle \left(\int f(x)dx\right)^2 = -c\cdot \left(f(x)\right)^2$

Now Let $-c=k^2\;,$ Then $\displaystyle \left(\int f(x)dx\right)^2 = k^2\cdot \left(f(x)\right)^2$

So $\displaystyle \int f(x)dx = \pm k\cdot f(x)$
 
Last edited:
And there it is! ;)
 
Very neat! (Wondering) The answer does not give us a specific type of function, but rather, the relationship that said function must satisfy with its antiderivative. :D
I can only imagine how evil my professor will be...(Dull) for this question is a typical exam question...
 
Rido12 said:
Very neat! (Wondering) The answer does not give us a specific type of function, but rather, the relationship that said function must satisfy with its antiderivative. :D

Can you solve it?

Hint: take the derivative.
 
Can we not simply say...

$$f(x)=\frac{\int f(x) \,dx}{\pm k}$$

but:

$$f(x)=\pm kf'(x)$$

I hope this is it, because it seems like it could involve differential equations, which I haven't really studied yet. :(
 
  • #10
Rido12 said:
Can we not simply say...

$$f(x)=\frac{\int f(x) \,dx}{\pm k}$$

but:

$$f(x)=\pm kf'(x)$$

I hope this is it, because it seems like it could involve differential equations, which I haven't really studied yet. :(

Ah.
Yes, sorry, it does involve a differential equation. (Doh)If you're interested, I'll show you.

If we write $y=f(x)$ and $\d y x = f'(x)$, we get:
\begin{array}{lcl}
y&=&\pm k\d y x \\
\frac {dy}{y} &=& \pm \frac{dx}{k} \\
\int \frac {dy}{y} &=& \int \pm \frac{dx}{k} \\
\ln |y| &= & \pm\frac x k + C_1 \\
|y| &=& e^{\pm x/ k + C_1} \\
y &=& \pm e^{C_1} e^{\pm x/ k} \\
y &=& C_2 e^{\pm x/ k} \\
y &=& C_2 e^{\pm x/ \sqrt{-c}} \\
\end{array}

And this is what we already found by guessing.
Substituing it in the original equation, shows that this entire family of solutions is indeed the solution. (Mmm)
 
  • #11
Alternatively, without resorting to differential equations (well... sort of), we can do:

\begin{array}{lcll}
f(x) &=& \pm k f′(x) \\
\frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} &=& \pm \frac 1 k & \text{This is the derivative of the next line.}\\
\ln(f(x)) &=& \pm \frac x k + C_1 & \text{Actually, I'm leaving out a $\pm$ here, that should be included.}\\
f(x) &=& e^{\pm x/k + C_1}
\end{array}
 
  • #12
Yep, but as you have said, I do smell the differential equation in that one, too. (Wasntme)

This course was meant for students to have already learned differential equations, so I'm sure this is the right way! :D (Yes)
 

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