Integration problem deriving virial theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the virial theorem from the hydrostatic equilibrium equation, specifically focusing on the integral involving gravitational potential energy. Participants express confusion regarding the notation and the evaluation of the integral.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the interpretation of the notation $$m(r)$$ and whether it can be simplified, suggesting it represents mass as a function of radius.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the validity of treating $$r$$ as a constant during integration, noting that $$m$$ depends on $$r$$.
  • Another participant clarifies that $$m(r)$$ refers to the mass contained within a cloud of radius $$r$$ but acknowledges that the text does not specify how mass varies with radius.
  • There is mention of an integral that is not evaluated in the text, which is noted to represent gravitational potential energy, leading to some acceptance of the text's claims without full verification.
  • One participant successfully completes the integral using integration by parts, indicating progress in understanding despite initial confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confidence regarding the derivation and notation, with no clear consensus on the interpretation of the integral or the assumptions behind it. Some participants agree on the need for clarity in notation, while others remain uncertain about the implications of the derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the notation and integration techniques, particularly regarding the treatment of variables and the assumptions made in the derivation. There is also a noted lack of information in the text about how mass varies with radius.

Bried
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Hello there,

I'm reading a section of my textbook that is deriving the virial theorem from the hydrostatic equilibrium equation. In part of the derivation it states that
$$-\int_0^M\frac{Gm(r)}{r}dm(r)=E_{GR}=-\frac{GmM}{r}$$
When I perform this integral I get the wrong answer. Here's my working.
$$-\int_0^M\frac{Gm(r)}{r}dm(r)=-Gr^{-1}\int_0^Mm(r)dm(r)=-Gr^{-1}\left[\frac12m^2\right]_0^M=-Gr^{-1}\left(\frac12M^2-0\right)=-\frac{GM^2}{2r}$$
I could just move on and take the text for granted but I like to understand how everything is derived so that I don't get tripped up in the future.
I'm not used to seeing $$m(r)$$ in the $$dm(r)$$ but surely the $$(r)$$ could be omitted right? Isn't this just stating that $$m$$ is a function of $$r$$?
Sorry for being a bit of a simpleton but having not done any studying over the summer I seem to have lost my flow somewhat. If someone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Thanks

Regards

Brian
 
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Bried said:
Hello there,

I'm reading a section of my textbook that is deriving the virial theorem from the hydrostatic equilibrium equation. In part of the derivation it states that
$$-\int_0^M\frac{Gm(r)}{r}dm(r)=E_{GR}=-\frac{GmM}{r}$$
Is there any additional information on what m(r) represents? It would appear to be the mass at a distance of r units from the center, but that's just a guess. Is there an assumption that the mass increases in a linear fashion?
Bried said:
When I perform this integral I get the wrong answer. Here's my working.
$$-\int_0^M\frac{Gm(r)}{r}dm(r)=-Gr^{-1}\int_0^Mm(r)dm(r)=-Gr^{-1}\left[\frac12m^2\right]_0^M=-Gr^{-1}\left(\frac12M^2-0\right)=-\frac{GM^2}{2r}$$
I don't believe it's valid to treat r as if it were a constant, and bring it outside the integral as you did. dm(r) is the same thing as dm, but emphasizing that m is a function of r. As far as the integration is concerned, I believe that the "of r" part could be omitted, but as I said above, it doesn't seem valid to bring the r out, since m depends on it.
Bried said:
I could just move on and take the text for granted but I like to understand how everything is derived so that I don't get tripped up in the future.
I'm not used to seeing $$m(r)$$ in the $$dm(r)$$ but surely the $$(r)$$ could be omitted right? Isn't this just stating that $$m$$ is a function of $$r$$?
Sorry for being a bit of a simpleton but having not done any studying over the summer I seem to have lost my flow somewhat. If someone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Thanks

Regards

Brian
 
Hi Mark,

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, m(r) is the mass of gas contained within a cloud of radius r. I don't believe the text actually states whether the mass increases in a linear fashion. The notation in this new module I'm doing is throwing quite a bit. I recently got a distinction in my Open University level 2 maths so I know I'm more than capable of doing it. I'm so used to evaluating integrals with dx, dt or d anything for that matter but the dm(r) has really confused me and my previous maths course hasn't prepared me for this. I'm feeling rather apprehensive about this module now.

I'm not sure if this will work but here's a dropbox link to the text in the book.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rteojqv84gulfmd/Virial theorem derivation.jpg?dl=0

Thanks again for your help.

Regards

Brian
 
In the text on dropbox, they don't evaluate this integral:
##-\int_0^M\frac{Gm(r)}{r}dm(r)=E_{GR}=-\frac{GmM}{r}##
They simply note that it is the gravitational potential energy of the cloud, EGR. I'll have to take their word for it. What they do is to evaluate this integral:
$$3\int_{r = 0}^{r = R} V(r) dP(r)$$
using integration by parts. They result they get from integration is equal to EGR.
 
Last edited:
Hi Mark,

Thanks for having a look at this again for me. Your response has put my mind at rest and gives me the confidence to carry on through the text without worrying too much about verifying every detail. I did manage to complete the integral on the left hand side, using integration by parts, without any problems.

Regards

Brian
 

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