Interchangeability of time and space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the interchangeability of time and space, particularly in the context of special and general relativity. Participants explore the implications of approaching the speed of light and how this relates to the nature of spacetime, as well as the effects observed near black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that as an object approaches the speed of light, there may be an exchange in the characteristics of time and space.
  • Another participant counters that no such exchange occurs as observers still agree on the nature of events, even at relativistic speeds, and questions the meaning of "approaches" versus "surpasses" the speed of light.
  • A participant references historical figures, Minkowski and Einstein, noting their contributions to the concept of spacetime and questions the validity of this interchangeability.
  • Another participant expresses confusion over a statement regarding the freedom of time and space coordinates at different velocities, suggesting it lacks clarity and coherence.
  • One participant mentions that in general relativity, there is a specific meaning to the interchange of space-like and time-like coordinates, particularly beyond the event horizon of a black hole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interchangeability of time and space, with some asserting that they are not fully interchangeable while others explore the implications of their relationship in various contexts. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of certain statements made regarding the nature of time and space at relativistic speeds, and the discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and interpretation of these concepts.

thebiggerbang
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Recently, when I was talking with my friends, one of them noted that as an object approaches c, there takes places an exchange in the characteristics of time and space. In simple words, what does this mean, if true?
 
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Nothing like that happens when an object approaches c. For example, even if the relative velocity between observers A and B is 0.999999999999999c, A and B still agree on whether the relationship between events P and Q is, say, timelike.

Something like that does happen when you cross the event horizon of a black hole.

Does your friend really mean "approaches," or does s/he mean "surpasses?" If the latter, then the question doesn't really make sense, because a material observer can't surpass c by any continuous process of acceleration. We have a FAQ about this: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=511170
 
Thanks. He surely meant approaches. Now I don't know if he was bluffing or so. I can't recollect his exact words but what I read after I Googled was like, "in the early 1900s, Minkowski and Einstein found that space and time are interchangeable and replaced them with spacetime for rigorous scientific purposes."

How far is that valid, do you think?
 
Also, here is what was trying to convey, which I suppose is highly improbable
"at velocities that we deal with in normal life, we have the freedom in the space co-ordinates, but time always flows by in one specific direction. So, as we approach higher velocities, tending to c, is it that we have the freedom of our time axis, but not for the space co-ordinate axis?"

Can you make any sense out of it?
 
Oh wait. You are Benjamin Crowell, aren't you? OMG :O Your lightandmatter texts are the gospel truth for me, here in India! I'd better go and read your book on relativity again!
 
thebiggerbang said:
Thanks. He surely meant approaches. Now I don't know if he was bluffing or so. I can't recollect his exact words but what I read after I Googled was like, "in the early 1900s, Minkowski and Einstein found that space and time are interchangeable and replaced them with spacetime for rigorous scientific purposes."

How far is that valid, do you think?

Well, there's a certain symmetry between the way space and time are treated in relativity, but they're not totally interchangeable.

thebiggerbang said:
Also, here is what was trying to convey, which I suppose is highly improbable
"at velocities that we deal with in normal life, we have the freedom in the space co-ordinates, but time always flows by in one specific direction. So, as we approach higher velocities, tending to c, is it that we have the freedom of our time axis, but not for the space co-ordinate axis?"

Can you make any sense out of it?

This way of saying it doesn't really make sense to me, because it seems to be saying that at low speeds X happens, but at high speeds Y happens. An observer going at .99999999999c in some frame can also be considered as being at rest in her own frame.
 
The inter - changing of space - like coordinates and time - like coordinates has a specific meaning in GR. As Ben already stated, past the EH of a black hole the space - like and time - like coordinates inter - change in the metric. I don't quite understand the statement you got from your google search regarding the inter - changing; maybe it is talking about proper time consisting of both time - like and space - like components.
 

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