Interesting proof of sequence limit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the sequence defined by \( x_n = \frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}} \), focusing on proving that it is increasing and that its limit as \( n \) approaches infinity is \( e \). Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including inequalities, limits, and properties of sequences, while also addressing related sequences and their behaviors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to prove that \( x_n \) is increasing by showing \( \frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} > 1 \) but encounters difficulties in the proof.
  • Another participant suggests using the relationship between \( x_n \) and a sequence \( y_n = \frac{2n}{1+n} \) to argue that if \( y_n \) is increasing, then \( x_n \) is also increasing since \( x_n > y_n \).
  • There is a claim that \( n! > \left(\frac{n}{e}\right)^n \) is established through mathematical induction, leading to the conclusion that \( e > x_n \).
  • A participant proposes that \( \sqrt[n]{n!} < \frac{(n+1)n}{2n} \) to further bound \( x_n \) and suggests that \( \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty} z_n = e \) implies \( \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty} x_n = e \), but later acknowledges an error in this reasoning.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of using logarithms to analyze \( x_n \) and suggests that the logarithmic approach may yield insights into the limit.
  • A related problem is introduced regarding the sequence \( y_n = \frac{n}{(\sqrt[n]{n!})^2} \), with a claim that it is decreasing and approaches 0, but the method to show it is decreasing is questioned.
  • Corrections are made regarding the notation and limits, with one participant admitting to a mistake in their original post about the limit of \( z_n \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the proof of the increasing nature of \( x_n \) and the limit it approaches. There is no consensus on the correctness of the various approaches, and some participants challenge each other's reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on specific inequalities and properties of sequences that are not fully resolved. The discussion includes corrections and refinements of earlier claims, indicating that participants are actively engaging with the material and each other's contributions.

paniurelis
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Prove that sequence [tex]x_n=\frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}}[/tex] is increasing and [tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}{x_n} = e[/tex]

My attempt:
First, I try to prove [tex]\forall n\in N:\frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n}>1[/tex].
[tex]\forall n\in :\frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n}=\frac{n+1}{n}\frac{\sqrt[n]{n!}}{\sqrt[n+1]{(n+1)!}}<br /> =\sqrt[n(n+1)]{\frac{(n+1)^{n(n+1)}(n!)^{n+1}}{n^{n(n+1)}((n+1)!)^n}}<br /> =\sqrt[n(n+1)]{\frac{(n+1)^{n^2}n!}{n^{n^2+n}}}[/tex] and this is dead end.

Another attempt, we have [tex]x_1 > 0, x_2 > 0, ..., x_n>0:\sqrt[n]{x_1x_2..x_n}\leq\frac{x_1+x_2+...+x_n}{n}[/tex], where equality is then [tex]x_1=x_2=...=x_n[/tex]
So, [tex]\forall n\in N: \sqrt[n]{n!}<\frac{(1+n)n}{2n}=\frac{n+1}{2}<br /> \Longrightarrow x_n=\frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}}>\frac{2n}{1+n}=y_n[/tex]
Sequence [tex](y_n)[/tex] is increasing, because [tex]\forall n\in N:\frac{y_{n+1}}{y_n}=\frac{2(n+1)}{n+2}\frac{1+n}{n+2}=\frac{n^2+2n+1}{n+2}=n+\frac{1}{n+2}>1[/tex]

Can I say, [tex]x_n[/tex] is increasing, because [tex]y_n[/tex] is increasing and [tex]x_n > y_n, n \in N[/tex] ?

Next, we have [tex]n!>\left({\frac{n}{e}}\right)^n, n \in N[/tex]. I will omit the proof of this inequality, it is proven very simply by using math. induction.

So, we have [tex]\forall n\in N:n!>\left({\frac{n}{e}}\right)^n \Longrightarrow e>\frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}}[/tex]

Next, [tex]\forall n \in N: \sqrt[n]{n!} < \frac{(n+1)n}{2n} = \left(1 + \frac{1}{n}\right) \frac{n}{2}<\left(1 + \frac{1}{n}\right)n=\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{n+1}}n \Longrightarrow x_n=\frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}}>1-\frac{1}{n+1}>1-\frac{1}{n}>\left(1-\frac{1}{n}\right)^{n}=z_n[/tex]

Finally, we have [tex]\forall n \in N: e> x_n=\frac{n}{\sqrt[n]{n!}}>z_n[/tex]
and [tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}z_n=e \Longrightarrow \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}x_n=e[/tex]

Q.E.D.

Is it correct ? Any suggestions ? I am missing something here...
 
Last edited:
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And another related problem with one above: Prove sequence [tex](y_n), y_n=\frac{n}{\left(\sqrt[n]{n!}\right)^2}[/tex] is decreasing and [tex]\lim y_n = 0[/tex].
I see [tex]y_n=\frac{x_n^2}{n}[/tex] and [tex]\lim y_n = \frac{\lim x_n^2}{\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}n}=\frac{e^2}{\lim_{\rightarrow\infty}n}=0.[/tex]

But how to show sequence is decreasing ?
 
paniurelis said:
Can I say, [tex]x_n[/tex] is increasing, because [tex]y_n[/tex] is increasing and [tex]x_n > y_n, n \in N[/tex] ?

No you can't.
Also, you missed the ! in the original equation for x_n.

The first thing I see with expression for x_n (once I realized that it should be n! not n in the denominator) is that if you expand out the n! you get

[tex] x_n^{-1}=\sqrt[n]{(1/n)(2/n)(3/n)\cdots(n/n)}[/tex]

This is just a geometric mean. Maybe that helps you?
 
Last edited:
might be easier to take logs, so
[tex] \log x_n = \sum_{k=1}^{n} (-\log(k/n)) (1/n)[/tex]
which will approach the limit [itex]\int_0^1(-\log(x))dx[/itex] from below. You still need to show that the approximations converge monotonically to the limit as n increases.
 
Thank you, gel, I have corrected x_n with ! in my first post. Also, I have found error in my original post:
[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}z_n=e \Longrightarrow \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}x_n=e[/tex]

Should be: [tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}z_n=\frac{1}{e} \Longrightarrow e\geq \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}x_n\geq \frac{1}{e}[/tex]

So, now I have proven [tex]x_n[/tex] is bounded, but not the convergence to e :-(
I'll think about geometric mean and logarithms, maybe I will come up with something :-)
 

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