Interference on paper, ground glass etc. surfaces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of interference patterns observed on surfaces such as paper and ground glass when using laser pointers. Participants explore the relationship between these patterns and the underlying physics, including potential explanations from classical and quantum mechanics, as well as the implications for human perception of these patterns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that interference patterns on surfaces like ground glass are perceived as if they were produced by phosphorescent materials, raising questions about the role of the retina in detecting these patterns.
  • Another participant argues that Maxwell's equations can fully explain the interference effects without invoking quantum mechanics, asserting that these effects occur independently of observation.
  • A follow-up inquiry asks whether there are exceptions to classical explanations, specifically if quantum mechanical phenomena could lead to non-classical behavior of scattered light, particularly in the context of common laser pointers.
  • A later reply reiterates that, to the best of their knowledge, no exceptions exist to the classical principles for the scenarios discussed, while acknowledging that lasers themselves require quantum mechanics for a complete explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of quantum mechanics to explain the observed phenomena, with some advocating for classical explanations and others questioning the completeness of those explanations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of non-classical behaviors in the context described.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the tension between classical and quantum explanations, with participants noting the limitations of each perspective in addressing the nuances of the observed interference patterns.

Swamp Thing
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With laser pointers being so ubiquitous, everyone is familiar with the sight of interference patterns on paper, ground glass and other surfaces (not to mention more subtle experiments like this one): Quantum Eraser -- which has been discussed recently in other threads. We take it for granted that interference patterns on the ground glass would effectively behave like glowing phosphor and cast corresponding images on our retinas.

But then, the actual "detectors" in such experiments are obviously not on the ground glass surface, but on the human retina. It is on the retina that waves add and cancel and produce the interference fringes. Yet we see these fringes as if the paper was coated with some kind of phosphor, which was absorbing incident photons and re-emiiting new photons towards the observer's eye, according to the local detection probability on the screeen surface.

On the one hand, it seems intuitively reasonable to expect that more photons would scatter from surfaces where more photons would have been detected IF there had been detectors there. On the other hand, it seems like a bit of a coincidence that those randomly scattered laser waves should create interference maxima on the retina, at those very places there the detector would have cast its phosphorescent image, if there had been a tiny detector on the surface of the ground glass.

So my question is : is there an explanation for this that can be understood without too much mathematics... and secondly, are there exceptions to this -- i.e. can the image on the retina have a less simple relation to the local intensity on the screen surface?

Thanks,
S T
 
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Precisely why do you think QM has anything to do with these things we experience every day? There is this well known theory called Maxwell's equations that is perfectly able to explain that.

The interference effects you mention have nothing to do with the retina - they happen regardless if its observed or not.

Thanks
Bill
 
Perhaps I ought to have posted this in the general physics forum. Anyway, so Maxwell's equations can explain the first part of the question. How about exceptions to the principle? Are there quantum mechanical phenomena where the scattered light behaves in an non-classical way ? If so, can they be observed using a common or garden laser pointer?
 
Swamp Thing said:
Perhaps I ought to have posted this in the general physics forum. Anyway, so Maxwell's equations can explain the first part of the question. How about exceptions to the principle? Are there quantum mechanical phenomena where the scattered light behaves in an non-classical way ? If so, can they be observed using a common or garden laser pointer?

To the best of my knowledge - no.

Other than of course lasers themselves require QM to explain.

Thanks
Bill
 

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