Interpretation of kinetic energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interpretation of kinetic energy (KE) in the context of a ball colliding with a spring. Participants explore the dual interpretations of kinetic energy as presented in a physics textbook, specifically focusing on the implications of kinetic energy in terms of work done during the interaction between the ball and the spring.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses understanding of the first interpretation of kinetic energy but seeks clarification on the second interpretation, questioning how a particle can do work simply because it possesses kinetic energy.
  • Another participant asserts that the conservation of mechanical energy implies that the total energy before and after the interaction remains constant, suggesting that the ball does work on the spring as it compresses it.
  • A different participant confirms that the works done by the ball and the spring are equal and opposite, framing this in terms of conservation of energy.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of elastic potential energy and questions how the cancellation of works relates to the conservation of energy, proposing a relationship involving the initial kinetic energy of the ball and the work done by the spring and ball.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conservation of energy principle and the equivalence of the two definitions of kinetic energy, but there remains uncertainty regarding the explicit relationship between the cancellation of works and conservation of energy.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the definitions of work and energy, as well as the system boundaries considered (the ball and spring together). The mathematical expressions proposed are not fully resolved, leaving some steps and implications unclear.

Soren4
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While studying energy on Sears & Zemansky's University Physics, I came up with a doubt on the meaning of kinetic energy. The book gives two possible physical interpretations of this quantity.
So the kinetic energy of a particle is equal to the total work that was done to accelerate it from rest to its present speed [...] The kinetic energy of a particle is equal to the total work that particle can do in the process of being brought to rest.

I'm okay with the first meaning of KE but I don't understand completely the second one. I don't understand how the particle can do work just because it owns KE.

Consider a ball with velocity ##v## that meets a spring, the spring is compressed and the ball is stopped. Following the previous interpretation of the kinetic energy, the ball should do work on the spring because of its KE. But does this really happen?

In the collision with the spring exerts a force ##f## on the ball and the ball exerts a force ##-f## on the spring. Are the two works done by the two forces equal and opposite?
 
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Hello Soren,
Yes. That is conservation of mechanical energy. Sum of energies before and after is the same, so the changes add up to zero.
If you wait a little longer, the spring is compressed as far as it will go and the ball is at resst (has lost its kinetic energy). Then the spring pushes the ball away -- doing work on the ball that picks up kinetic energy again.
 
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Soren4 said:
But does this really happen?
Yes, the spring is compressed.
Soren4 said:
Are the two works done by the two forces equal and opposite?
Yes. The work of the spring on the ball is negative and the work of the ball on the spring positive with the same magnitude. This is just conservation of energy.

The two definitions are completely equivalent.
 
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Thanks a lot for the replies @BvU and @Orodruin ! I hope that what I will ask makes sense: how does the "canceling out" of the works imply the conservation of energy, explicitly?
Firstly, to introduce the elastic potential energy ##U## it is necessary to take as "system" both the spring and the ball. Then is it possible to write the following? ##K_{initial, ball}-W_{spring}+W_{ball}=U_{system}##
Again, I don't know if it makes sense, but I would like to see in what way do the two works cancel out
 

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