Interpreting Path Ordered Exponentials with Non-Sensical Integration Variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interpretation of path ordered exponentials involving non-commuting matrices in the context of integrals with variable limits. Participants explore the implications of these integrals within a mathematical framework, particularly focusing on the integration limits and their meaning in relation to the properties of the matrices involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the integral limits in the expression $$\int_0^{t''} \left[ \int_{t'}^t \omega(t'') \omega(t') dt' \right] dt''$$ given the condition that $$0 < t' < t'' < t$$.
  • Another participant suggests that $$\omega\, : \,[0,1] \longrightarrow \operatorname{SO}(3)$$ represents a path on the manifold, emphasizing the complexity of handling non-commuting matrices compared to commuting scalars.
  • A third participant references formulas from the text, indicating that $$\omega(t) \in T_e(SO(3))$$ and relates it to the contraction mapping principle for a specific equation involving $$R$$ and $$\omega$$.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the iterative process of approximating $$R(t)$$ using the contraction mapping principle, providing a series of equations that illustrate the successive approximations.
  • Another participant points out a need to substitute an expression for $$R_1(\xi)$$ in the iterative process, indicating a potential oversight in the previous calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of the mathematical concepts involved, with some agreeing on the iterative approach while others raise questions about the limits and substitutions. No consensus is reached on the interpretation of the integral limits or the handling of non-commuting matrices.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the clarity of the integral's formulation and the assumptions regarding the properties of the matrices involved. The dependence on specific definitions and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps contribute to the complexity of the topic.

etotheipi
I see a term like$$\int_0^{t''} \left[ \int_{t'}^t \omega(t'') \omega(t') dt' \right] dt''$$here ##\omega## is a matrix. How to interpret this integral - the integration variables are in the limits, in places where they don't make sense. Is that a mistake? It's given that the range of integration is ##0 < t' < t'' < t##, i.e. a triangle in the ##t'##-##t''## plane. Reference is top of page 50 here. Thanks!
 
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I think ##\omega\, : \,[0,1] \longrightarrow \operatorname{SO}(3)## is simply a path on the manifold. The point is to demonstrate why general, i.e. non-commuting matrices cannot be handled the same way as (commuting) scalars. The "let's pretend as if" part is a bit confusing, since he uses the same variables.
 
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Hope it will be of some use

formula (3.11) at page 49 means that ##\omega(t)\in T_e(SO(3))##

formula (3.16) follows from the standard successive procedure of the contraction mapping principle for the equation ##R=E+\int_0^t\omega Rd\xi##.
 
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That's interesting! Maybe a bit above my level of maths. Let me see what I understand; by the contraction mapping principle, the successive approximations to ##R(t)## are $$R_n(t) = 1 + \int_0^t \omega(\xi) R_{n-1}(\xi) d\xi$$So for instance$$R_1(t) = 1 + \int_0^t \omega(\xi) d\xi$$and the next approximation is$$\begin{align*}

R_2(t) = 1 + \int_0^t \omega(\xi) R_1(\xi) d\xi &= 1+ \int_0^t \omega(\xi) \left[ 1 + \int_0^t \omega(\eta) d\eta \right] d\xi \\

&= 1 + \int_0^t \omega(\xi) d\xi + \int_0^t \int_0^t \omega(\xi) \omega(\eta) d\eta d\xi

\end{align*}$$and then continue on and take ##R(t) = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}R_n(t)##. Except, I have some different limits in the second integral here to Tong... 🤭
 
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You write ##R_1(\xi)## it is correct ; but then you must substitute ##R_1(\xi)=1+\int_0^\xi\omega(s)ds##
 
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wrobel said:
You write ##R_1(\xi)## it is correct ; but then you must substitute ##R_1(\xi)=1+\int_0^\xi\omega(s)ds##

Ah, yes that's it, thanks ☺
 

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