Intersection of all sets in a family of sets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of intersections within a family of sets, particularly focusing on the intersection of all elements in a family of sets M that contains infinitely many elements. Participants explore the conditions under which this intersection is also a member of M and the implications of finite versus infinite sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to justify that the intersection of all elements in M, denoted as N, is also in M, given that N cannot be constructed in a finite number of steps.
  • Another participant provides a counter-example where M consists of subsets [0,x) of [0,1], leading to N being {0}, which is not in M.
  • A further clarification is made regarding the requirement that x must be greater than 0 for the example to hold, as [0,0) is empty.
  • One participant suggests that if all elements of M are finite, then there exists a smallest element that would serve as the intersection of all elements in M.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of the "finite intersection property," linking it to compactness and noting that any finite set is compact in any topology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of infinite versus finite sets and the conditions under which intersections remain in the family of sets M. There is no consensus on the justification for the intersection being in M, and multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of the sets involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of the sets in M and the unresolved nature of whether the intersection can be constructed or justified within the family of sets.

Werg22
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Say there's a family of set M with infinitely many elements with the property that whenever X and Y belong to M, so does their intersection. How to justify that the intersection of all elements in in M, N, (interpreted here as the largest subset common to every element in M) is also in M? Since N can't be constructed in finite number of steps, I'm having trouble seeing what justifies the conclusion. Maybe there's a way to establish the existence of two elements in M whose intersection is exactly N?
 
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Hi Werg22! :smile:

If M is all the subsets [0,x) of the set [0,1],

then N is {0}, which is not in M.
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Werg22! :smile:

If M is all the subsets [0,x) of the set [0,1],
For x> 0. Without that [0, 0]= {0} is in M.

then N is {0}, which is not in M.
 
HallsofIvy said:
For x> 0. Without that [0, 0]= {0} is in M.

I agree that the example requires x > 0, but wouldn't [0, 0) = {}?
 
I see, thanks for the counter-example tiny-tim. What if all the elements of M are finite?
 
Oh, silly me. If the elements of M are finite, it implies that there is a smallest element, making it the intersection of all elements in M (keeping in mind that the intersection of two sets in M is also in M).
 
It looks to me like you are talking about the "finite intersection property" which requires compactness: If every finite collection of a family of compact sets is non-empty, then the intersection of all sets in the family is non-empty".

Generally, "compact" requires the specification of a topology but it is true that any finite set is compact in any topology.
 

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