Intro to Proofs: Properties of Relations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a specific relation defined on the real numbers, where the relation R consists of pairs (x, y) such that the difference x - y is an integer. Participants are tasked with proving that this relation is symmetric, reflexive, and transitive.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants present their attempts to demonstrate the properties of reflexivity, symmetry, and transitivity. They explore the implications of the definitions and question the clarity of their arguments, particularly regarding the transitive property.

Discussion Status

Multiple participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing feedback on each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need for clearer articulation of the transitive property, indicating a productive exchange of ideas.

Contextual Notes

There appears to be some confusion regarding the definitions and implications of the properties being discussed, particularly in how to express the relationships in terms of integers. Participants are encouraged to refine their arguments based on feedback received.

Dembadon
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Hello, I would like to check my arguments for this problem.

Homework Statement



Consider the relation R = \{(x,y) \in \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R}: x-y \in \mathbb{Z}\} on \mathbb{R}. Prove that this relation is symmetric, reflexive, and transitive.

Homework Equations



Supposing a relation R on a set A.

Reflexivity: Relation R is reflexive if \forall x \in A, xRx.

Symmetry: Relation R is symmetric if \forall x,y \in A, xRy \Rightarrow yRx.

Transitivity: Relation R is transitive if \forall x,y,z \in A, \left((xRy) \land (yRz)\right) \Rightarrow xRz.

The Attempt at a Solution



Reflexivity:

We choose any x \in \mathbb{R} and discover that x - x = 0, which is in \mathbb{Z}. Therefore, we have xRx, showing that R is reflexive on \mathbb{R}.

Symmetry:

We can argue directly by assuming xRy. This relation means we have (x - y) \in \mathbb{Z}. It follows that -(x - y), which is yRx, is also in \mathbb{Z}.

Transitivity:

If xRy and yRz are both integers, then adding them yields another integer.
 
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Dembadon said:
Hello, I would like to check my arguments for this problem.

Homework Statement



Consider the relation R = \{(x,y) \in \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R}: x-y \in \mathbb{Z}\} on \mathbb{R}. Prove that this relation is symmetric, reflexive, and transitive.

Homework Equations



Supposing a relation R on a set A.

Reflexivity: Relation R is reflexive if \forall x \in A, xRx.

Symmetry: Relation R is symmetric if \forall x,y \in A, xRy \Rightarrow yRx.

Transitivity: Relation R is transitive if \forall x,y,z \in A, \left((xRy) \land (yRz)\right) \Rightarrow xRz.

The Attempt at a Solution



Reflexivity:

We choose any x \in \mathbb{R} and discover that x - x = 0, which is in \mathbb{Z}. Therefore, we have xRx, showing that R is reflexive on \mathbb{R}.

Symmetry:

We can argue directly by assuming xRy. This relation means we have (x - y) \in \mathbb{Z}. It follows that -(x - y), which is yRx, is also in \mathbb{Z}.
It depends on how nit-picky you want to get, but it's probably better to say ##y-x \in \mathbb{Z}##, rather than ##-(x-y) \in \mathbb{Z}##, implies yRx.

Transitivity:

If xRy and yRz are both integers, then adding them yields another integer.
Right idea, but you should write out explicitly how xRy and yRz imply x-z is in Z.
 
Last edited:
Dembadon said:
Hello, I would like to check my arguments for this problem.

Homework Statement



Consider the relation R = \{(x,y) \in \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R}: x-y \in \mathbb{Z}\} on \mathbb{R}. Prove that this relation is symmetric, reflexive, and transitive.

Homework Equations



Supposing a relation R on a set A.

Reflexivity: Relation R is reflexive if \forall x \in A, xRx.

Symmetry: Relation R is symmetric if \forall x,y \in A, xRy \Rightarrow yRx.

Transitivity: Relation R is transitive if \forall x,y,z \in A, \left((xRy) \land (yRz)\right) \Rightarrow xRz.


Transitivity:

If xRy and yRz are both integers, then adding them yields another integer.

You have the idea but you need to rewrite the transitive one. xRy is not an integer and neither is yRz, and you can't add them. Write more carefully what you mean.
 
vela said:
It depends on how nit-picky you want to get, but it's probably better to say ##y-x \in \mathbb{Z}##, rather than ##-(x-y) \in \mathbb{Z}##, implies yRx.

Gotcha.

Right idea, but you should write out explicitly how xRy and yRz implies x-z is in Z.

I understand. This is what I had in my head but omitted from my argument:

(x - y) + (y - z) = x - z, which is xRz.

I appreciate your input. :smile:
 

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