Introduction to SR: Inertial Frame of Reference Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of inertial frames of reference in the context of special relativity (SR). Participants explore the definition of inertial frames, the implications of different observers in scenarios involving constant velocity, and the significance of these frames in understanding the principles of SR.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the definition of an inertial frame of reference, suggesting it involves constant velocity but expressing confusion about its implications.
  • Another participant defines an inertial frame as one that is not externally accelerated, noting that this is an idealization and discussing the challenges of identifying motion without external reference points.
  • A thought experiment involving a train and lightning strikes is presented, with one participant asserting that observers in different frames perceive the timing of the lightning strikes differently due to their relative motion.
  • Another participant explains that in an inertial frame, light travels at a constant speed for all observers, leading to different observations of the lightning strikes based on the observer's frame of reference.
  • A participant questions the importance of considering inertial frames in SR, suggesting it relates to the consistency of results across different frames.
  • Another participant states that in an inertial frame, Newton's First Law applies, while in non-inertial frames, fictitious forces may need to be introduced to account for observed accelerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of inertial frames, particularly regarding the lightning strike thought experiment. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the scenario or the necessity of considering inertial frames in all contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of motion and reference frames, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of non-inertial frames and the application of Newton's laws.

semc
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Hey guys can someone explain to me what does an inertial frame of refence mean? From what i know its a frame of reference whereby the observer frame of reference is at constant velocity? But i don't really get what it means.

I have been reading some articles on SR and it seems that there is this case about a train moving at a constant speed and 2 bolts of lightning strike both end of the train at the same time. There is one observer in the train and one outside. The article claims that the observer outside the train see that the bolt of lightning strike both ends at the same time but the observer inside sees the lightning strike one end 1st. That does not make sense to me can someone explain this to me?
 
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An inertial frame of reference is a frame of reference which is not externally accelerated. This is somewhat of a (typically physical) idealization, because no such thing exists in our universe (we are in the gravitational field of the earth, which rotates about its axis, and about the sun, while the solar system rotates about the center of our galaxy, etc.). But you can imagine two people in a well-shielded box, somewhere in outer space where no gravity is present. Intuitively, you probably agree that - while these two people can do an experiment to determine that they are moving with respect to each other - there is no way that they can tell which one is moving and which one is standing still (if any), without any "external" reference points. Indeed, this is precisely one of the postulates of relativity.

In more practical terms, suppose that I am in a train which moves at constant velocity and you are in another train which is standing still. When I look out the window, and our trains are very close together so I can't see any "external" reference points such as the platform or the station building, I may be inclined to think that I am the one standing still, and the other train is actually moving; while you may think that you are standing still and I am moving. (This actually happened to me more than once while I was in a train). In fact, without looking at something outside the trains, there is no experiment we could do to determine which of us were moving... or maybe both.

About the thought experiment with the lightning bolt, I think you got that backwards. One other postulate of SR is that light (in vacuum) always moves at the same velocity to any (inertial) observer. So when I am in the middle of the train, and the lightning hits both ends simultaneously, it will have to travel half the distance of the train from both ends. Since that takes the same time, I will see them arrive simultaneously. For someone outside the train, however, this is not the case. While the flash from the rear of the train moves towards the middle, the middle is moving forward. So the distance the light has to travel increases. Similarly, the middle of the train is moving towards the position where the front of the train was when the lightning struck, so the front flash has to travel less distance to me. So when you are on the platform watching me, and also see both flashes of light moving at constant velocity, the one at the back will arrive at me later then the one on the front, simply because it has to cover more distance.
 
Alright thanks i think i understood them now. But one more question, why is taking an inertial frame of reference of important in SR? Is the reason just because the theory states that all frame of reference must give the same result? So what happen if i don't consider an inertial frame?
 
An inertial reference frame is one in which Newton's First Law works. That is, if the net external force acting on an object is zero, then the object either remains stationary or moves in a straight line with constant speed.

In a non-inertial reference frame, objects accelerate "all by themselves" even when the net force on them is zero. You have to either (a) change the laws of motion, for example by modifying Newton's First Law to say that if the net force is zero, an object has a certain "intrinsic acceleration"; or (b) invent "fictitious forces" that produce this acceleration and which have to be included in Newton's First Law.
 

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