Invertible Operator with 0's on the Diagonal: What Conditions are Needed?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an example of an operator whose matrix representation has zeros on the diagonal but remains invertible. The subject area pertains to linear algebra and matrix theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of having zeros on the diagonal of a matrix and question what this means for the invertibility of the operator. There are attempts to consider specific matrix forms, such as a 2x2 matrix, and discussions about the conditions necessary for invertibility without relying on determinants.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering various perspectives on how to approach the problem. Some suggest specific matrix forms to analyze, while others express uncertainty about the relevance of determinants in their current learning context. There is no explicit consensus, but multiple lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that their class has not yet covered determinants in depth, which influences their approach to understanding matrix invertibility. This constraint shapes the discussion around alternative methods for finding inverses.

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Homework Statement


Give an example of an operator whose matrix with respect to some basis contains only 0's on the diagonal, but the operator is invertible.

The Attempt at a Solution


I think the operator will not have an upper-triangular matrix since it would then not be invertible.
 
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No, what you after is not upper triangular. What are some alternatives?
 
i'm still unsure of what the diagonal values represent
if the diagonals are all 0, what does that tell you about the operator?
 
No body said all the diagonals are 0, just the main diagonal. Start simple. Try a 2 by 2 matrix with 0s on the diagonal. Now, you know that a matrix is invertible as long as its determinant is not 0. Just fill in the other two numbers so the determinant is not 0.
 
our class was taught such that we're leaving determinants out until the end of the year...
so that doesn't tell me a whole heck of a lot
if the diagonal is all 0's, what condition would make the matrix invertible (aside from anything having to do with determinants) ?
 
Well if it's a two dimensional matrix, A, you could easily find the inverse of it and show that [itex]AA^{-1}=I=A^{-1}A[/itex]. That way you wouldn't need to find its determinant.
 
cubixguy77 said:
our class was taught such that we're leaving determinants out until the end of the year...
so that doesn't tell me a whole heck of a lot
if the diagonal is all 0's, what condition would make the matrix invertible (aside from anything having to do with determinants) ?

You must know SOME way to find the inverse of a matrix. Take M=[[0,a],[b,0]], put it into that method and figure out what conditions a and b need to satisfy for it to have an inverse.
 

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