Investigating Inconsistencies in Strogatz's Nonlinear Dynamics Book

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formula for the average of sine raised to an even power as presented in Strogatz's Nonlinear Dynamics book. Participants are examining potential inconsistencies in the application of this formula, particularly regarding the case of $\langle\sin^6\rangle$. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification related to inner products and integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the formula $\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle = \frac{1\cdot 3\cdot 5\cdots (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\cdots 2n}$ by noting a discrepancy in the case of $\langle\sin^6\rangle$.
  • One participant asserts that $\frac{5}{16}$ is equal to $\frac{15}{48}$, raising the question of whether the equality requires the numerator and denominator to be relatively prime.
  • Another participant reports obtaining a negative value for $\left\langle\left(\frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2}\right)^6\right\rangle$, which contradicts the expected positive result, suggesting a potential oversight regarding the imaginary unit in the denominator.
  • A participant seeks clarification on how the average $\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle$ is proved, providing a reference to the definition of the inner product and outlining the integration process involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the formula and the implications of the results derived from it. There is no consensus on the resolution of the discrepancies noted, and multiple competing interpretations of the mathematical expressions remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the definitions and assumptions underlying the inner product and the integration techniques used. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and potential errors in mathematical reasoning without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Dustinsfl
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Strogatz's Nonlinear and Dynamics book states that
$$
\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle = \frac{1\cdot 3\cdot 5\cdots (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\cdots 2n}
$$
for $n\geq 1$.
However, $\langle\sin^6\rangle = \frac{5}{16}\neq\frac{15}{48}$.

What is the deal here?
 
Last edited:
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dwsmith said:
Strogatz's Nonlinear and Dynamics book states that
$$
\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle = \frac{1\cdot 3\cdot 5\cdots (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\cdots 2n}
$$
for $n\geq 1$.
However, $\langle\sin^6\rangle = \frac{5}{16}\neq\frac{15}{48}$.

What is the deal here?
Ummm...
\frac{5}{16} = \frac{15}{48}

Or do we need numerator and denominator to be relatively prime? In that case they are not "equal"?

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
Ummm...
\frac{5}{16} = \frac{15}{48}

Or do we need numerator and denominator to be relatively prime? In that case they are not "equal"?

-Dan

I apparently can't do math.
 
So I looked at
$$
\left\langle\left(\frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2}\right)^6\right\rangle = -\frac{5}{16}
$$
The rest is zero due the inner product. So why am I getting a negative with this method when it should be a positive?
 
dwsmith said:
So I looked at
$$
\left\langle\left(\frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2}\right)^6\right\rangle = -\frac{5}{16}
$$
The rest is zero due the inner product. So why am I getting a negative with this method when it should be a positive?

Hi dwsmith, :)

Well I think you are missing the imaginary unit that should be in the denominator.

\[\sin{x}=\frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2i}\]

Kind Regards,
Sudharaka.
 
dwsmith said:
Strogatz's Nonlinear and Dynamics book states that
$$
\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle = \frac{1\cdot 3\cdot 5\cdots (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\cdots 2n}
$$
for $n\geq 1$.

How is this proved?
 
dwsmith said:
Strogatz's Nonlinear and Dynamics book states that
$$
\langle\sin^{2n}\rangle = \frac{1\cdot 3\cdot 5\cdots (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\cdots 2n}
$$

for $n\geq 1$...

How is this proved?...

First it is usefule to discuss a bit about what You mean as 'inner product'. According to...

Inner Product -- from Wolfram MathWorld

... in the space of real functions the 'inner product' of two functions f(*) and g(*) is defined as...

$\displaystyle \langle f(x) , g(x) \rangle = \int_{a}^{b} f(x)\ g(x)\ dx$ (1)

In the case of $f(x)=g(x)= \sin^{n} x$, $a=0$ and $b=\frac{\pi}{2}$ is...

$\displaystyle \langle f(x) , g(x) \rangle = \int_{0}^{\frac{\pi}{2}} \sin^{2 n} x\ dx = \frac{ 1\cdot 3\cdot 5\ ...\ (2n-1)}{2\cdot 4\cdot 6\ ...\ 2n}\ \frac{\pi}{2}$ (2)

You arrive at (2) using iteratively the integration by part...

$\displaystyle \int \sin^{m} x\ dx = - \frac{\sin^{m-1} x \cos x}{n} + \frac{m-1}{m}\ \int \sin^{m-1} x\ dx$ (3)

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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