Iron: Paramagnet and Last Fusion Product

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of iron, particularly its ferromagnetism, its role as the last fusion product in stars, and its abundance among elements. Participants explore the definitions and implications of ferromagnetism, the relationship between iron and other magnetic metals, and the conditions affecting magnetic properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the classification of iron as a rare earth element and seek clarification on how to define the strength of ferromagnetism.
  • One participant proposes a practical definition of ferromagnetism based on the ability of different metals (iron, cobalt, nickel) to be suspended by magnets of varying strengths.
  • Another participant notes that the definition of ferromagnetism may depend on ambient conditions, suggesting that temperature and pressure can influence magnetic properties.
  • There is a discussion about the Curie temperatures of elements and whether these can be predicted using quantum mechanics, with one participant affirming that knowledge of crystal structure and lattice parameters allows for such predictions.
  • A participant raises the question of why more elements are not listed with Curie temperatures, despite many being paramagnetic and forming crystal structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the definitions and implications of ferromagnetism, with no consensus reached on the relationship between temperature, pressure, and magnetic properties. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader applicability of Curie temperatures to other paramagnetic elements.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about ambient conditions and their effects on ferromagnetism are noted, as well as the dependence on specific experimental setups. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of predicting Curie temperatures for all elements.

gendou2
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Iron: Paramagnetic and Last Fusion Product

Iron seems to have many mysterious properties:

1. Strongest ferromagnetic rare Earth element.
2. Last stage of fusion in stars to yield positive energy.
3. Heaviest of the ten most abundant elements.

I can imagine how 2 and 3 are likely related.
What about 1?
Is there a reason why we might expect the end of the fusion chain to be ferromagnetic?
I should probably start by asking, what makes Iron ferromagnetic?
Is it some property of the outermost electron shell?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
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gendou2 said:
Iron seems to have many mysterious properties:

1. Strongest ferromagnetic rare Earth element.
Iron is not a rare earth, but nevertheless, how do you define strength of ferromagnetism?
 
I hadn't thought about it before...

Let's say I have 3 spheres of metal: Iron, Cobalt, Nickel.
With a weak magnet, I can suspend the iron sphere against the pull of gravity.
A stronger magnet can suspend the Cobalt sphere.
A much stronger magnet can levitate the Nickel sphere.

Is that a good definition?

---

So far, I've learned a bit about ferromagnetic properties of Iron from these two sources:

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/iron.htm


I also read up on binding energy:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_energy

I read that nickel-62 actually has the most tightly bound nucleus of all!
This dampens the mystery for me, a bit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
gendou2 said:
I hadn't thought about it before...

Let's say I have 3 spheres of metal: Iron, Cobalt, Nickel.
With a weak magnet, I can suspend the iron sphere against the pull of gravity.
A stronger magnet can suspend the Cobalt sphere.
A much stronger magnet can levitate the Nickel sphere.

Is that a good definition?
That's a usable definition (for the purpose of this discussion). Note, however, that your definition makes no mention of ambient conditions, and therefore implicitly assumes the conditions are near that of the mean temperature and pressure at the surface of one particular planet (i.e., the Earth). This is a somewhat arbitrary choice of conditions, in a universal context. For instance, if you heat up the experimental chamber to about 1000K, the iron ball will stop levitating but the cobalt ball will not. On the other hand, if you cool the chamber down to 10K, you could suspend a gadolinium sphere with a much weaker magnet than the one needed for the iron sphere.
 
Gokul43201 said:
...if you cool the chamber down to 10K, you could suspend a gadolinium sphere with a much weaker magnet than the one needed for the iron sphere.

Wow, that's a trip!
Thanks for your informative reply Gokul43201.
So, ferromagnetism is an Earth-temperature-pressure-centric phenomenon?
I found this graph of the Curie temperatures for different elements:

http://www.periodictable.com/Properties/A/CuriePoint.html

I wonder, could one predict these graph points using quantum mechanics?
 
gendou2 said:
I wonder, could one predict these graph points using quantum mechanics?
Yes, knowing the crystal structure and the lattice parameters (distances between certain atoms in the crystal), it is possible to calculate the Curie temperature.
 

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