Is a (smooth) manifold allowed to have different dimensions in different points.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dimensionality of manifolds, specifically whether a smooth manifold can have different dimensions at different points. Participants explore theoretical implications and properties of such objects, considering concepts from topology and manifold theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a manifold cannot change dimensions within a single connected component, as it must be locally n-euclidean around any point.
  • One participant proposes a hypothetical scenario of a manifold that smoothly transitions from a line to a surface, questioning the properties of such an object.
  • Another participant argues against the existence of a manifold that morphs from 1-dimensional to 2-dimensional, citing contradictions arising from the compactness of paths connecting points of different dimensions.
  • Concerns about invariance of domain are raised, suggesting that overlapping charts would lead to contradictions if a manifold could have different dimensions.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of constructing surfaces from a one-parameter family of lines, noting that such constructions could lead to non-manifold points under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the possibility of a manifold having different dimensions at different points, with multiple competing views presented. No consensus is reached regarding the hypothetical scenarios discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the nature of manifolds and the definitions of dimensionality. The discussion does not resolve the implications of these assumptions on the proposed scenarios.

alemsalem
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obviously in one coordinate neighborhood it can't..
I'm thinking of a line which smoothly develops into a surface : -----<<

what particular properties would this object have..

Thanks :)
 
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No, this can't happen: the property of a manifold to be locally n-euclidean around a given point is both open and closed, so if a manifold is locally n-euclidean in a nbhd of a point, then it is locally n-euclidean everywhere in the connected component containing that point.

So a manifold can't morph from 2-d to 1-d. Of course, it can have a connected component of dimension 2 and another of dimension 1.
 
alemsalem said:
obviously in one coordinate neighborhood it can't..
I'm thinking of a line which smoothly develops into a surface : -----<<

what particular properties would this object have..

Thanks :)

manifolds can have boundaries and corners.
 
You couldn't have a "line which smoothly develops into a surface".

Suppose for the sake of contradiction such a manifold, M, existed. Then about some point p, there would be a 1 dimensional coordinate chart, and about some point q, a 2 dimensional coordinate chart.

Now, by "smoothly develops into a surface", I assume you mean that the manifold is path-connected. So let g(t) be a curve connecting p and q. i.e., g(0) = p and g(1) = q.

Now, as [0,1] is compact, its image g([0,1]) is compact in M. However, about every point x in the image g([0,1]) there is an open neighborhood U(x) which is homeomorphic to either R^1 or R^2. As the image g([0,1]) is compact, only a finite number of these open sets U(x) suffice to cover g([0,1]).

But then we have reached a contradiction, because in that finite subcollection of open sets, there must be two partially overlapping neighborhoods, one homeomorphic to R^1, the other to R^2. This is a contradiction, because their intersection (or any open set for that matter) cannot possibly be homeomorphic to both R^1 and R^2
 
Thanks...
 
I think this would lead you to an invariance of domain problem, i.e., you would end up with a copy of R^n homeomorphic to a copy of R^m for m=/n , on chart overlaps.
 
alemsalem said:
obviously in one coordinate neighborhood it can't..
I'm thinking of a line which smoothly develops into a surface : -----<<

what particular properties would this object have..

Thanks :)

One can certainly create surfaces from a one parameter family of lines. They would have a straight line through every point. Depending on how this is done, the surface could have points of self intersection, cusps, places where it it not a 2 dimensional manifold.

For instance the straight lines in the direction of a curve in Euclidean 3 space's unit normal might span a surface that fails to be 2 dimensional at some points..
 

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