Is Absolute Movement Linked to Absolute Time in 3D Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of absolute movement and its potential link to absolute time within a three-dimensional space context. Participants explore the implications of relative motion among multiple spaceships positioned along the x, y, and z axes, examining whether absolute movement necessitates the existence of absolute time.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if there is absolute movement, then at least one spaceship must be moving in an absolute sense.
  • Others argue that once the spaceships stop accelerating, they can be considered stationary in their own rest frames, with no absolute rest frame existing.
  • One participant suggests that an observer at the origin of the coordinate system would have to declare that at least one spaceship is moving absolutely, while others counter that all spaceships are moving relative to the observer.
  • There is a proposal that absolute movement implies a set distance traveled in a set time, but this is contested by others who emphasize the relativity of motion.
  • Some participants question the definition of absolute motion, suggesting it requires a unique reference frame defined by the laws of physics.
  • One participant notes that an observer at the launch site would see all spaceships moving, but emphasizes that the launch site does not represent a special absolute frame.
  • There is a call for clarification on what is meant by "absolute," indicating the complexity of the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of absolute movement or its relationship to absolute time. Multiple competing views are presented, with ongoing debate about the definitions and implications of absolute versus relative motion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the definitions of absolute and relative motion, as well as the assumptions underlying the claims made by participants. The complexity of the concepts discussed contributes to the unresolved nature of the conversation.

Ross Arden
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if you have 3 space ships on the x, y and z axis and they blast off...one of them must be moving in an absolute sense.

Is it the case that if there is absolute movement then there MUST be absolute time also?
 
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Ross Arden said:
if you have 3 space ships on the x, y and z axis and they blast off...one of them must be moving in an absolute sense.

No, once they stop accelerating then it would be equally true to say than anyone of the ships is stationary and the other two are moving.

Ross Arden said:
Is it the case that if there is absolute movement then there MUST be absolute time also?

I'm not sure, but I believe that it would imply something like that.
 
but an observer standing at the origin of the coordinate system would have to say that at least one of them is moving in an absolute sense

If there is absolute movement then the thing that is moving absolutely is moving a set distance in a set time
 
Ross Arden said:
but an observer standing at the origin of the coordinate system would have to say that at least one of them is moving in an absolute sense

The observer would say that all of them are moving relative to them. All of the spaceships would say that the observer is moving and they are stationary.
 
Ross Arden said:
if you have 3 space ships on the x, y and z axis and they blast off...one of them must be moving in an absolute sense.
No, they are all stationary in their own rest frame, and the other ships are moving relative to them.
There is no absolute rest frame
 
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but the observer would also have to say that one of the space ships is moving in an absolute sense. I am not saying he can tell which one, but one of them, including the observer must be moving
rootone said:
No, they are all stationary in their own rest frame, and the other ships are moving relative to them.
There is no absolute rest frame
But can anyone say they are all stationary?
 
one of them is definitely moving, it is not moving relative to something, it is absolutely moving
 
An observer at the launch site would see all of them moving.
The launch site is not in any special absolute frame though, it could be anywhere
 
is there a frame where the person in that frame can say they all stationary?
 
  • #10
No, all of them are moving relative to any arbitrary spacetime coordinate you choose, other than where a ship is,
 
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  • #11
so at least one of them is moving in an absolute sense, ie an absolute distance in an absolute time?
 
  • #12
Define what you mean by absolute.
It's trickier than it might at first seem.
 
  • #13
Thread locked. @Ross Arden, you should accept the answers you were given. Thanks everyone.
 
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  • #14
Ross Arden said:
if you have 3 space ships on the x, y and z axis and they blast off...one of them must be moving in an absolute sense.
No. At least one of them must be moving relative to anything. That is not the same as absolute motion.

Absolute motion is a different concept. It specifically refers to motion with respect to some single unique reference frame which is singled out by the laws of physics. It does not refer merely to a scenario where we are certain that at least one object is moving relative to any reference frame.

If it were absolute motion then there would be a physical experiment which could unambiguously and uniquely identify which one was absolutely at rest.

Edit: sorry about the late post, had to walk the dog in the middle of typing it
 
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