Is Calculus a Mysterious Art or Just Advanced Mathematics?

  • Context: Undergrad 
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    Calculus
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of calculus, exploring whether it is an advanced mathematical discipline or something more akin to a mysterious art. Participants express their confusion regarding the foundational concepts of calculus, particularly the treatment of derivatives and infinitesimals, and how these concepts are taught in educational settings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express that calculus feels like "black magic" due to a lack of internal logic and rigorous explanation in teaching methods.
  • Others argue that calculus is a rigorous subject that can be understood through advanced topics like differential forms and real analysis, which provide a clearer foundation.
  • There is a suggestion that the treatment of derivatives as ratios of infinitesimals is misleading and that a more rigorous approach is needed.
  • Some participants advocate for the intuitive use of infinitesimals in physics, while others question the validity of this approach without a solid mathematical foundation.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of rigor in high school calculus courses, where formulas are often presented without proof.
  • There is a debate over whether treating dy/dx as a fraction or as an operator is meaningful, with differing opinions on the implications for understanding calculus.
  • Some participants suggest that the confusion arises from the way calculus is taught, implying that better teaching could alleviate misunderstandings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of calculus or the best way to teach it. Multiple competing views exist regarding the treatment of derivatives, the use of infinitesimals, and the adequacy of current educational practices.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the treatment of calculus in educational settings often lacks rigor, leading to confusion. The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical concepts, particularly regarding infinitesimals and their application in physics.

  • #31
Spivak? Don't think so (I could be wrong).You can find the two-volume calc books by Apostol from Wiley, though. (~ Rs. 650) I assume that you're from Calcutta. There must be a British Library (Dep. High. Comm.) there. Check it out.
 
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  • #32
You mean Spivak's book is not distributed in India? Is Apostol good?
 
  • #33
loom91 said:
You mean Spivak's book is not distributed in India? Is Apostol good?
I'm not sure, at least I couldn't find anything on the 'net. You can contact these guys http://www.mathpop.com/ for further info. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471000051/?tag=pfamazon01-20's supposed to be one of the good 'pure-maths-type' intro. I have borrowed the book once from a library, but being 'infintely impaired' :wink: , I couldn't get beyond a few pages.
 
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  • #34
any book you can read is a goodbook for you. then afterwards progress to another book.
 
  • #35
What makes James Stewart rubbish? I think the fifth edition is very robust.
 
  • #36
one mans rubbish is another mans croissant filling. i like henry helson's book.
 
  • #37
I think it was me that described them as rubbish, so I shall defend that statement. They are rubbish because they have no content, or rather, what mathematical content there is is so diluted as to lose any interest. They do not prove anything, and the statements that they make are trivial in the extreme and not at all worth reading. Anyone with one scintilla of one iota of one brain cell can immediately see that they are dross and contain practically no mathematical knowledge worth writing down. Engineers may disagree at will. Actually what irks me is that they charge a ridiculous amount of money to students to temporarily own a book that could be written by the tutor in one 100th of the amount of space at fractional cost of energy to the tutor. Canonical example is the fact that one of them (FInney I tihnk), proves three different chain rules for them. Hello! There's only one chain rule, don't dress it up and make them think it is harder than it is. Once they're doing multivarible calc there is no difference in difficulty between the chain rule for functions from R^m to R^n for any m and n so don't make them learn special cases...

So, to clarify, they are rubbish because they are exteremely bad value, and cannot be condoned as purchases to anyone at all, excepting that many universities require their students to buy them *for no good reason in my opinion*.
 
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  • #38
Teaching students about 1-forms is ridiculous. They should just learn to "do" calculus. When they have gained some mathematical maturity then they can be treated as adults. I remember that I had a rough time in my differential geometry class despite having been a math student for 3 years
 
  • #39
  • #40
well, you asked.
 
  • #41
marcmtlca you are using the oft debated argument: " i had trouble with something, hence no one should ever be taught it before i was", no matter how competent is his teacher.

this is rubbish. with all due respect.
 

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