Is dowsing a reliable technique for finding well sites?

[zoobyshoe]

I seriously doubt that unless all dowsers are autistic. One simply can’t tap into a mental disorder.

I never said anyone could tap into a mental disorder. I said they could tap into an otherwise unused ability. The ability I was referring to is one that is obvious to see in the case of autistic-savants: unconscious but accurate assessments.

Again, this is merely chance that the dowser will find anything.

Earlier you agreed the dowsers better-than-chance success in finding pipes was due to him being a "burried pipe expert".
Now you are backpedaling and denying there is ever any better-than-chance success.

There is a clear difference between the way a professional athlete trains and a dowser. Athletes practice techniques that are finite and tangible and will produce a result each time. You can’t say that about dowsers because it’s not possible for a pipe to be buried in a standard location each and every time. How then does a dowser practice his skills? Quite simply, he cannot.

Both practise by trial and error. Both keep techniques that work and discard those that don't.

Again, playing the piano and dowsing are clearly not in the same category. The keys to a piano are finite and tangible and will never change their positions on the keyboard.

You completely missed my point about conscious deliberation. Your previous point was that the dowser must be fully conscious of what he was up to. The Glen Gould story was an example of someone who played less well in proportion to how consciously he was deliberating about it.

Can a pipe be buried in standard locations and never be changed from the norm? I would venture to say they do change for each and every case. Big difference.

There is no standard location for pipes in many situations. This is, apparently, why utility workers resort to dowsing.

I don’t think so – a dowser cannot practice his skills in the same way another person practices their skills as its not logical to assume a pipe will be buried in the exact locations predetermined by practice so again it all comes down to chance.

My understanding is that utility workers dig first where they expect the pipe logically to be. If it isn't there, or at a second test dig, then they "resort" to dowsing. Thus, through trial and error, they learn all kinds of things, conscious and unconscious, about where people make decisions to put pipes. Utility workers who replace or repair pipes do it everyday. They get plenty of practise.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I’ve a dash of Autism, being Asperger’s Disorder. Anyone think that may play a roll in the ability to dowse?

Seriously? Are you an "Aspie"?

If so, it begs the question, "Do Asperger's people make better dowsers?"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The quote was "Dowsing confirmed as real?" Note the question mark. As a skeptic, one would think that you might at least try to give an accurate representation of the facts.

I did. Nowhere in the article does it make such a claim with or without a question mark therefore it is your personal opinion. Is that not a clear representation of the facts?

This is the authors responsibility. I posted this paper for your consideration. This does not imply that I consider this proof of anything. That's why we have discussions - to see if this is worth considering or not. Beat it up all that you want. That's why we have this forum

Keep in mind that you already have been warned twice.

I contacted Greg in regards to your warnings and he said you were equally at fault. Of course, if you are allowed to break the rules here without warning and can dole out warnings on a whim, what does that say about your ability to properly moderate this forum?

Okay. I contacted Greg and he confirms that you did contact him six months ago or so. He never mentioned it to me. I warned you when in two sentences you accused me of lying three times. I did no such thing. If you want to re-hash all of this then file a complaint or send me a PM. Otherwise I consider this a dead issue and I will delete any further references to this.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Of course I would Q. That is really the whole point isn't it.

Yes, but the likeliness of biased results and lack of scientific method is very high all things considered.

What things considered. I have hardly said anything. Please tell us what about testing arctic fox, as discussed so far, constitutes bad science? Please be specific.

If you play nice we will not have a problem.

Does that mean if I agree with everything you say, we won't have a problem?

Is that not supposed to be an insult? No Q, we value differing opinions. Again, that is really the whole point of this forum.

 

[(Q)]

Shall we move on now?

Shall we move on to what?

Anyone think that may play a roll in the ability to dowse?

You would first have to establish that there are actual “abilities” to dowsing. And since none have been established and the fact that dowsing is pure chance, I would say no, Aspergers disorder will not play a roll.

 

[(Q)]

Earlier you agreed the dowsers better-than-chance success in finding pipes was due to him being a "burried pipe expert".
Now you are backpedaling and denying there is ever any better-than-chance success.

No, I agreed a buried pipe expert might have better than chance success, not a dowser. A buried pipe expert would use tangible methodical ways to find buried pipes. He would use his knowledge that pipes MUST be buried in certain places according to logic. If he looks and finds those pipes in those places and claims he found them dowsing, I suspect he would be lying.

Both practise by trial and error. Both keep techniques that work and discard those that don't.

Sorry, but I disagree and I suspect you don’t play sports. Techniques for practicing sports are tangible and have already been established – a player learns those techniques and does not discard them because those techniques work each and every time if done correctly. You can’t say the same thing about dowsing.

You completely missed my point about conscious deliberation.

No, I got your point and I followed it up with a statement about how Glen’s playing is linked to the fact that the keys never change position on the keyboard – that is the only reason why he is able to play without conscious deliberation. Are pipes buried in exact locations known to the dowser therefore he can simply walk up to that location and find the pipe? No, it is complete chance.

There is no standard location for pipes in many situations. This is, apparently, why utility workers resort to dowsing

Ok, so we need to go back and review which utility workers use dowsing to find pipes and see the results and compare them to other methods or determine if the results reveal chance.

My understanding is that utility workers dig first where they expect the pipe logically to be. If it isn't there, or at a second test dig, then they "resort" to dowsing.

So, they are forced to eventually resort to chance when logic fails. Of course, I would think those workers would be remiss not to use a metal detector before breaking ground.

Utility workers who replace or repair pipes do it everyday. They get plenty of practise.

Practice dowsing or practice the logic of pipe placement?

 

[(Q)]

Beat it up all that you want. That's why we have this forum

Gee thanks – that’s what I thought I was doing yet some here are taking it personally as if their whole life’s beliefs were hanging in the balance.

I contacted Greg and he confirms that you did contact him six months ago or so. He never mentioned it to me.

Of course, I always back up my statements with valid evidence. Perhaps he didn’t mention it to you because there was nothing to merit the warnings in the first place.

I warned you when in two sentences you accused me of lying three times. I did no such thing.

I see. Please show me in the Terms of Service where accusations of lying are prohibited.

If you want to re-hash all of this then file a complaint or send me a PM. Otherwise I consider this a dead issue and I will delete any further references to this.

Uh… I didn’t bring it up – YOU did. And I don’t go whining to moderators about anyone – I simply deal with them or ignore them.

Why delete the references, is there something you don’t want others to see?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Earlier you agreed the dowsers better-than-chance success in finding pipes was due to him being a "burried pipe expert".
Now you are backpedaling and denying there is ever any better-than-chance success.
No, I agreed a buried pipe expert might have better than chance success, not a dowser.

No you said "dowser":

Precisely. And that is where we can discard the concept of divination as we unravel the mystic of the "dowser" by simply revealing its true nature - a "buried pipe expert."

Here you have clearly said that the "dowser" was, in fact, a buried pipe expert.

Both practise by trial and error. Both keep techniques that work and discard those that don't.
Sorry, but I disagree and I suspect you don’t play sports. Techniques for practicing sports are tangible and have already been established – a player learns those techniques and does not discard them because those techniques work each and every time if done correctly. You can’t say the same thing about dowsing.

I see what you're saying here. The dowser doesn't spend time just practicing the way people practise for sports.

You completely missed my point about conscious deliberation.
No, I got your point and I followed it up with a statement about how Glen’s playing is linked to the fact that the keys never change position on the keyboard – that is the only reason why he is able to play without conscious deliberation. Are pipes buried in exact locations known to the dowser therefore he can simply walk up to that location and find the pipe? No, it is complete chance.

OK. I see what you're hung up on here.

There is no standard location for pipes in many situations. This is, apparently, why utility workers resort to dowsing

Ok, so we need to go back and review which utility workers use dowsing to find pipes and see the results and compare them to other methods or determine if the results reveal chance.

That would be fine by me.

My understanding is that utility workers dig first where they expect the pipe logically to be. If it isn't there, or at a second test dig, then they "resort" to dowsing.

So, they are forced to eventually resort to chance when logic fails. Of course, I would think those workers would be remiss not to use a metal detector before breaking ground.

According to the stories dowsers can find clay pipes. This is my whole reson for thinking there might be something to it: why go through the silly rigamarole of dowsing rods if they aren't getting better than chance results from them?
If they aren't getting better than chance results from them, they would be digging ALOT of fruitless holes. Personally, I wouldn't bother after the third empty hole found with dowsing rods. Better to make wild guesses and continuously fail than to continuously fail because of dowsing rods. I could see some crackpot willing to fail over and over, but not practical people on the time clock with a job to do.

Utility workers who replace or repair pipes do it everyday. They get plenty of practise.
Practice dowsing or practice the logic of pipe placement?

The logic of pipe placement, obviously, but not necessarily on a conscious level.

 

[(Q)]

Zobbyshoe

You must be beginning to concede the argument as you now turn your attention away to nitpicking mine.

If you insist that everything be spelled out for you then so be it.

No you said "dowser":

A dowser is a self-professed individual who claims to find things via divination.

Here you have clearly said that the "dowser" was, in fact, a buried pipe expert.

But I was following your line of logic, which stated that the ‘dowser’ was actually working with the facts of what he can see in front of him, what he knows about where people decide to put pipes, and where the pipe wasn't.

Clearly there is a big difference between a person using divination and one using facts of where pipes are buried. If this particular individual used the facts and then claimed to be a dowser, then he is a fraud and he is in fact a buried pipe expert, and I would call him such. But we are talking about self-proclaimed dowsers so my statement is correct.

The dowser doesn't spend time just practicing the way people practise for sports.

No, I am stating that there are no verifiable techniques that a dowser can use to practice whereas an athlete has verifiable techniques to practice. How does one practice something where the results are pure chance?

why go through the silly rigamarole of dowsing rods if they aren't getting better than chance results from them?

Because dowsers claim to have ‘special abilities’ and if we’ve learned anything about the human condition we know people like to get attention especially if they think they have abilities through divination. This entire forum is built partly on that concept.

I could see some crackpot willing to fail over and over, but not practical people on the time clock with a job to do.

Do you really think practical people would turn to dowsing?

And of course, crackpots fail over and over all the time yet refuse to understand or acknowledge it. This forum, along with many others is ripe with crackpots who have failed miserably, yet can’t see it for themselves.

The logic of pipe placement, obviously, but not necessarily on a conscious level.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to bury pipes on anything but a conscious level – perhaps you can elaborate why such a thing would occur?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zobbyshoe

You must be beginning to concede the argument as you now turn your attention away to nitpicking mine.

No, I have been nitpicking your argument from the start. The devil's in the nits, to paraphrase the famous saying.

No you said "dowser":
A dowser is a self-professed individual who claims to find things via divination.

Some are, I suppose. Others do it just because they were taught that it works with no explanation of the mechanism. Ivan's father, apparently, was quite surprised to hear that it wasn't supposed to be scientifically possible. He'd been doing it for years with the vague notion there was some kind of electromagnetic thing at work. Other utility workers are much the same, I suppose.

Here you have clearly said that the "dowser" was, in fact, a buried pipe expert.

But I was following your line of logic, which stated that the ‘dowser’ was actually working with the facts of what he can see in front of him, what he knows about where people decide to put pipes, and where the pipe wasn't.

In other words, you clearly said the dowser was a buried pipe expert.

Clearly there is a big difference between a person using divination and one using facts of where pipes are buried. If this particular individual used the facts and then claimed to be a dowser, then he is a fraud and he is in fact a buried pipe expert, and I would call him such. But we are talking about self-proclaimed dowsers so my statement is correct.

My speculation was that the person is not consciously aware of calculating with the unconscious store of information at his disposal. There's no question here of fraud. I believe that this is the real point of disagreement between us: you don't believe a person can slip into a state of mind like this at will. I believe they could, if they were taught that the divining rods work, and don't particularly care how they work.

No, I am stating that there are no verifiable techniques that a dowser can use to practice whereas an athlete has verifiable techniques to practice. How does one practice something where the results are pure chance?

Your quetion assumes the rsults are pure chance.

I could see some crackpot willing to fail over and over, but not practical people on the time clock with a job to do.

Do you really think practical people would turn to dowsing?

The reports are that they do.

The logic of pipe placement, obviously, but not necessarily on a conscious level.
I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to bury pipes on anything but a conscious level – perhaps you can elaborate why such a thing would occur?

As someone recently said to me, "if you want everything spelled out for you..." I did not say people learn to bury pipes unconsciously, I said they might unconsciously learn many things about how other people bury pipes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Beat it up all that you want. That's why we have this forum

Gee thanks – that’s what I thought I was doing yet some here are taking it personally as if their whole life’s beliefs were hanging in the balance.

Alright the heck with it. If you want to play more games I'll play along. I sure wouldn't want anyone to think that I'm hiding anything.

This last statement of yours is a hint at your technique. You ignore or misrepresent what came before.

I contacted Greg and he confirms that you did contact him six months ago or so. He never mentioned it to me.

Of course, I always back up my statements with valid evidence. Perhaps he didn’t mention it to you because there was nothing to merit the warnings in the first place.

Since I have learned to anticipate your misrepresentations of the facts, I assumed that this was just more misdirection.

I warned you when in two sentences you accused me of lying three times. I did no such thing.

I see. Please show me in the Terms of Service where accusations of lying are prohibited.

It is when the accusation is false. It was and you know it.

If you want to re-hash all of this then file a complaint or send me a PM. Otherwise I consider this a dead issue and I will delete any further references to this.

Uh… I didn’t bring it up – YOU did. And I don’t go whining to moderators about anyone – I simply deal with them or ignore them.

I reminded you that you had been warned twice. I did so since I want to be fair. I also had not been told about your pm to Greg by a reliable source yet.

Why delete the references, is there something you don’t want others to see?

No Q, you're right. We wouldn't want to give that appearance would we.

 

[(Q)]

No, I have been nitpicking your argument from the start.

Fine, whatever.

I suppose. Others do it just because they were taught that it works with no explanation of the mechanism

That would presume such a mechanism existed and whether or not it worked. So far, no such mechanism has been shown to exist.

He'd been doing it for years with the vague notion there was some kind of electromagnetic thing at work.

Or, he is under the delusion he’s been doing it for years.

Other utility workers are much the same, I suppose.

Or not.

In other words, you clearly said the dowser was a buried pipe expert

Oh I get it now – you’re trying to annoy me. Ha ha, good one.

you don't believe a person can slip into a state of mind like this at will. I believe they could, if they were taught that the divining rods work, and don't particularly care how they work.

No, I never said I don’t believe a person can slip into a state of mind. And of course, another assumption that divining rods actually work – they are just pieces of wood , you know.

Your quetion assumes the rsults are pure chance.

Every experiment ever conducted on dowsers revealed the same results. Doesn’t a theory have to be falsifiable and can be falsified with just one experiment?

I did not say people learn to bury pipes unconsciously, I said they might unconsciously learn many things about how other people bury pipes.

I’m not sure how that can take place. Would that require a self-professed dowser to spend time with buried pipe experts?

 

[Arctic Fox]

MY OFFICIAL RESIGNATION, I’m finished! It’s over!


I am hereby officially submitting my resignation as an adult. I have decided to leave behind the complexities of the adult world and only accept the responsibilities of a young child.

I want to return to a time when life was simple. When all I knew was the alphabet, colors and numbers.

I want to go to a fast food place and think it is a Five Star Restaurant.

I want to play hide and seek and make mud pies with friends.

I want to think candy is better than money because you can eat it.

I want to live in a time where nothing can bother me because I don't know what the adults know and I don't care.

I want to think the world is peaceful and everyone is kind and honest.

I want to believe anything is possible.

I don't want my life to consist of more work than one person can handle, depressing news and how to survive more days in a month than there is money in the bank.

I want to believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the true meaning of Thanksgiving.

I want to believe in the power of love, friendship, and having snowball fights in the winter.

So, I am sending you my check book, my car keys, and my bills.

I am officially resigning as an adult.

If you want to discuss this further...

You will have to catch me first because...







TAG! You're IT!



Dowsing isn’t just looking for water or pipes. Try finding a stolen vehicle in a city of 1.2Million. Or a lost cat in a National Forest. Or a bracelet lost months earlier...

Can’t we all just... get along? :D

 

[zoobyshoe]

I suppose. Others do it just because they were taught that it works with no explanation of the mechanism
That would presume such a mechanism existed and whether or not it worked. So far, no such mechanism has been shown to exist.

Yes, it presumes such a mechanism exists. That was stated in my introduction to my line of speculation. I stipulated for myself the authenticity of dowsing, and speculated forth from that stipulation.

I am not trying to prove dowsing, I am assuming for the sake of argument there is something to it, and trying to speculate logically what the mechanism may be in realistic, non-magical terms. The stipulation can't be attacked, since its a stipulation. It's a stepping off point for a mental excercize.

In other words, you clearly said the dowser was a buried pipe expert

Oh I get it now – you’re trying to annoy me. Ha ha, good one.

No, it may annoy you to be quoted verbatim to have said something you later denied having said, but my primary intention wasn't to annoy you.

Your quetion assumes the rsults are pure chance.

Every experiment ever conducted on dowsers revealed the same results. Doesn’t a theory have to be falsifiable and can be falsified with just one experiment?

I haven't read anyone's Theory of Special Dowsing or the follow up Theory of General Dowsing. C'mon! Dowsing has never been presented on the level of a theory. It remains a claim.

As I said in my introduction to my speculation, the fact it has failed all these tests is pretty damning.

The fact is, according to stories that have been posted in threads about dowsing here, people using it for purely practical purposes, that is: to locate pipes and other buried utilities, claim that it works more often than not, and is reliable. That being the case, that they claim this, I am not prone to completely close my mind to it. And, stipulating they they aren't lying or deluded, I am trying to reason out a realistic explanation. Ya see? (I know there is one other thread about dowsing that has been contributed to in the past six months or so, and there may actually be two. These are where these stories are. I don't know if you've read them.)

I did not say people learn to bury pipes unconsciously, I said they might unconsciously learn many things about how other people bury pipes.

I’m not sure how that can take place.

Unconsciously, like I said.

Would that require a self-professed dowser to spend time with buried pipe experts?

No. It would just require that the person find a lot of pipes. Whenever we do anything a lot we pick up a lot of things unconsciously about what we're doing. Consciously, too, of course, but the notion I'm playing around with here is that the divining rods act as a distraction for the person's conscious mind so that he can unconsciously put together the mass of facts at his disposal very quickly, and figure out where the pipe is, fully believing the rods sensed it.

 

[(Q)]

Yes, it presumes such a mechanism exists.

Kinda like presuming aliens are visiting Earth with UFO's?

No, it may annoy you to be quoted verbatim to have said something you later denied having said, but my primary intention wasn't to annoy you.

Then you either misunderstood or I failed miserably trying to explain it to you. That's even more annoying. ;)

Dowsing has never been presented on the level of a theory.

Actually, it has and those theories border on pseudoscience and protoscience.

Ya see?

Uh-huh.

Unconsciously, like I said.

No, you misunderstood - I meant how can it physically take place? Do dowsers follow around buried pipe experts, have meetings, that sort of thing?

the divining rods act as a distraction for the person's conscious mind

Ok, I see what you're getting at. But there are those who use "L" shaped brass rods due to the notion the rod is attune to the Earths magnetic fields. Do you think the dowser would therefore not involuntarily move the rods but instead the rods would move themselves due to the magnetic fields?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yes, it presumes such a mechanism exists.

Kinda like presuming aliens are visiting Earth with UFO's?

It could be done with that subject just as well, yes. We could stipulate that they are visiting, and then try to think through realistic and logical trains of thought about how their ships operate. Personally, I have no interest in that particular excercise.

Dowsing has never been presented on the level of a theory.
Actually, it has and those theories border on pseudoscience and protoscience.

You are saying that someone has written up a formal paper that satisfies all the requirements of a theory and has tried to get it published in a peer reviewed journal? Or are you saying someone on the net has incorrectly referred to his ramblings about dowsing as a theory?

Unconsciously, like I said.

No, you misunderstood - I meant how can it physically take place? Do dowsers follow around buried pipe experts, have meetings, that sort of thing?

According to these accounts the utility workers are taught how to dowse by more senior and experienced guys. There is no separate dowsing expert involved. All the training is on the job, like in a lot of fields. The trainee learns new things every day. Then the day comes where they can't find the pipe. The experienced guy reaches behind the seat of the truck and pulls out his two bent coat hangers. "OK. This is a job for the rods." The trainee says "Duh, huh?" The sup says, "Shut up and come with me. I show you how to work these puppies."

the divining rods act as a distraction for the person's conscious mind

Ok, I see what you're getting at. But there are those who use "L" shaped brass rods due to the notion the rod is attune to the Earths magnetic fields. Do you think the dowser would therefore not involuntarily move the rods but instead the rods would move themselves due to the magnetic fields?

In the particular line of speculation I am engaged in in this thread, the dowser would, himself, somehow be responsible for the movement of the rods, but he would not consciously instigate this movement, and would believe they had moved by themselves.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Zooby, I can relate to this line of investigation, but can you suggest or at least speculate on the mechanism? Sensitivity to variations in the ambient magnetic or electric field? Being able to hear faint sound of the water in the buried pipe?

It seems that you could do experiments with these "naive" subjects - put 'em in a farady cage for example.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Considering the range of hidden objects that can allegedly be found, it strikes me that people must be sensing variations in the magnetic field around them.
I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How do wild animals such as wolves and deer know where to find water? Do they in fact have this ability beyond knowing the terrain? I have always thought...for some reason...that they can smell water. Can they? Can we?

Edit: smell is a bad choice of words. Maybe I mean to sense by olfaction generally. The word "smell" may not apply?

 

[Hurkyl]

Some animals can spot bodies of water based on the polarization of light.

Of course, it would require the water to be reflecting light...

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zooby, I can relate to this line of investigation, but can you suggest or at least speculate on the mechanism?

Been doin' that this whole thread.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I once spent a little time with the chief architect of the Biosphere.

nuff said?

He once walked across Australia.

need more?

Anyway, he learned to follow dingoes [wild dogs] to hidden water sources. They would know exactly where to dig. He almost died of thirst several times so this became a bit of an issue for him.

 

[einsteinian77]

what is dowsing?

 

[zoobyshoe]

what is dowsing?

Old folk method of locating underground water so you could have well water, instead of having to tke your bucket down to the stream all the time.

The original method was to take a willow branch and split it halfway up. Then you hold one half of the split part in each hand with the whole end pointing forward, away from you, and you start to walk around the landscape. Supposedly, when you come to a spot where there is underground water the end of the willow rod will pull down, as if by its own power, and point to the ground there. You mark the spot, and that's where you dig your well.

People still do this. Apparently they now use two metal wires instead of the willow rod. They walk around holding one rod in each hand, with the free ends of the rods pointing forward, and when they come to a spot where there is underground water, the wires will cross of their own accord. The wires are bent at a 90 degree angle, and the vertical section is held loosly in the hands while the horizontal section points forward, in the direction of walking. That's the story, anyway.

People here in this thread have been expanding on claims about what you can find by dowsing: not just water, but anything you want to find.

 

[(Q)]

try to think through realistic and logical trains of thought about how their ships operate.

This is where the UFO nutters lose it as they can never understand the physics behind their so-called “realistic and logical trains of thought” yet press on with their claims stating that aliens MUST be far more advanced than us, hence they’ve already broken the laws of physics.

Or are you saying someone on the net has incorrectly referred to his ramblings about dowsing as a theory?

There have been scientific experiments conducted, so I guess it does classify as a theory.

According to these accounts the utility workers are taught how to dowse by more senior and experienced guys. There is no separate dowsing expert involved.

Well, that may be true for some cases but perhaps not all.

A buried pipe expert, for example, might never get any press if all he does is find pipes based on the standard methodologies. However, if one wanted to make some headlines and perhaps claim a bit of notoriety, he could research where particular pipes are buried using standard methodologies and then commence to wave a stick around and claim he found the pipes by dowsing.

And then there is the problem with the more senior guys trying to explain the mechanisms of dowsing to the junior guys. If it doesn’t work, what are the senior guys to tell?

In the particular line of speculation I am engaged in this thread, the dowser would, himself, somehow be responsible for the movement of the rods, but he would not consciously instigate this movement, and would believe they had moved by themselves.

Hence, the myth of dowsing continues its propagation merely because one “believes” the rods moved themselves. It doesn’t occur to these people to take their reasoning one more step in understanding that inanimate objects don’t move by themselves without some external force acting upon them, especially when no such forces are ever detected.

Ivan speculates:

I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

Are you referring to the Earths magnetic field? How do magnetic field variations lead to water?

And as usual, you have jumped to a conclusion without thinking about any other possibilities.

 

[dowser501]

what is dowsing? I have been researching dowsing for 22 years (successfully)
I have ironed out 90% of the bugs and may be right on the last 10%.
I have always taken a scientific approach in my research and tried to avoid the supernatural side of mental dowsing. Actually I prefer to call Dowsing mental channeling or mental radar which it is. I feel I have simplified the workings of mental dowsing down to a few physical laws as to why, when and how mental dowsing works.
It has not been easy as very few articles out of the thousands I have read on the subject bear much credibility as to the actual operation of dowsing rods.
One point I wish to make is that mental dowsing is as real as any other of our senses, and is an incredible experience once you make the breakthrough.
I will answer any sensible queries on the subject. Regards Max

 

[(Q)]

I feel I have simplified the workings of mental dowsing down to a few physical laws as to why, when and how mental dowsing works.

Please explain - what physical laws exactly? How does mental dowsing work exactly?

One point I wish to make is that mental dowsing is as real as any other of our senses

Why then is not a sixth sense? Why has this 'sense' not been detected?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ivan speculates:

I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

Are you referring to the Earths magnetic field? How do magnetic field variations lead to water?

And as usual, you have jumped to a conclusion without thinking about any other possibilities.

speculate
verb: talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion

http://www.onelook.com/?w=speculate&ls=a

Conclusion
noun: the act of making up your mind about something (Example: "He drew his conclusions quickly")

http://www.onelook.com/?w=conclusion&ls=a

Misrepresent
verb: represent falsely (Example: "This statement misrepresents my intentions")

http://www.onelook.com/?w=misrepresent&ls=a

 

[dowser501]

Please explain - what physical laws exactly? How does mental dowsing work exactly

Firstly it is a 6th sense. How does it work? There is too much involved to cover the whole area of mental dowsing in one go, however I feel on an intelligent forum such as this one you will ask the leading questions which will keep the debate going.

The physical laws involved are Geomatic Flux eminating via solar flares and UV rays which cancel them, plus the aid of lunar reflection to enhance dowsing ability.

In recent times scientists have been studying seriously the possible harmfull effects of the use of mobile phones of the area of the Cerebellum Cortex which they have discovered Co-ordinates muscles, learned skills and timing.

The Cerebellum Cortex sited just above each ear is the culprit if you are looking for
for the power transfer source of mental dowsing. This can be proved by attempting to mentally dowse with a powerfull magnet placed just above an ear and attempting to mentally activate a single dowsing rod clenched in the other hand on the other side of the body.

Indoors preferably, as this stage of learning to mentally dowse you will not realize that the Suns UV rays are cancelling out all dowsing activity.

You will definitely feel a pull on the dowsing rod and even a live mobile phone will give a gentle pull on the dowsing rod. A recent scientific article article from the states
claims to have discovered that mobile phones excite the Cerebellum Cortex.

How dowsing works? The solar supplied Geomagnetic rays must bathe the entire body to make the human body a sender and receiver, remembering to protect the head from uv rays by headwear that covers fully the ears and thus the Cerebullem Cortex which is your transmitter and receiver. The dowser channels out a mental query and basically simply receives a yes or a no in various intensities if the mental answer is yes, and a blank if the answer is no.

Fire away critics and sceptics, you have 20 years of intense study to catch up on in a few postings Regards Max

 

[(Q)]

There is too much involved to cover the whole area of mental dowsing in one go…

In other words, you have no clue?

The physical laws involved are Geomatic Flux eminating via solar flares and UV rays which cancel them, plus the aid of lunar reflection to enhance dowsing ability.

Are you making this up as you go along?

Geomatics is concerned with the measurement, representation, analysis, management, retrieval and display of spatial information describing both the Earth's physical features and the built environment. Geomatics includes disciplines such as:
Surveying, Geodesy, Remote Sensing & Photogrammetry, Cartography, Geographic Information Systems and Global Positioning Systems.

Lunar reflection is merely the light reflecting off the Sun. How is this different from any other reflected light? Why doesn’t direct sunlight have the same effect?

And its interesting that both lunar reflection and UV rays are both electromagentic radiation, yet one aids while the other cancels. Curious, however unlikely.

The Cerebellum Cortex sited just above each ear is the culprit if you are looking for
for the power transfer source of mental dowsing.

The Cerebellum is located in the back of the brain, not above each ear and is a feedback loop for muscle movement and has not been know to “transfer power.”

Indoors preferably, as this stage of learning to mentally dowse you will not realize that the Suns UV rays are cancelling out all dowsing activity.

Why is that – UV rays are merely another form of electromagnet radiation?

How dowsing works? The solar supplied Geomagnetic rays must bathe the entire body to make the human body a sender and receiver

So, the person is bathed in X-rays and magnetic fields? X-rays can do serious harm. Magnetic fields are simply nonionizing electromagnetic energy and have not been shown to have an effect on chemical bonds in the body.

remembering to protect the head from uv rays by headwear that covers fully the ears

A tinfoil hat, perhaps?

The dowser channels out a mental query and basically simply receives a yes or a no in various intensities if the mental answer is yes, and a blank if the answer is no

Where does the yes/no signal originate?

Fire away critics and sceptics, you have 20 years of intense study to catch up on in a few postings Regards

You have made a very feeble attempt at trying to baffle us with BS. A first year physics student could poke holes in that nonsense. Better luck next time.