Is English Grammar Objective or Automatable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of English grammar, specifically whether it is objective or subjective, and the potential for automating grammar checking through software. Participants explore the implications of grammar rules, their application in communication, and the challenges of creating algorithms for grammar verification.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that grammar is primarily subjective, emphasizing that its purpose is to ensure effective communication, which can vary based on common usage and individual understanding.
  • Others propose that grammar has objective rules that are independent of the user, although the application of these rules can be subjective due to individual misuse or misunderstanding.
  • A few participants suggest that while software can recognize grammatical structures, it struggles with coherence and understanding, as it does not process language in the same way humans do.
  • There is a viewpoint that grammar can be seen as both objective and subjective, with objective rules existing but subjective interpretation influencing how those rules are applied in practice.
  • One participant mentions the uniqueness of individual language use (idiolects) and the challenges this presents for automating grammar checks.
  • Some contributions reference linguistic theories, such as Noam Chomsky's transformational grammar, suggesting that grammatical rules may be innate and universally applicable across languages.
  • Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of algorithms in writing prose due to the subjective nature of style and personal preferences in grammar usage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on whether grammar is objective or subjective, with no consensus reached. The discussion includes competing perspectives on the nature of grammar and the feasibility of automation in grammar checking.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations noted include the dependence on individual understanding of grammar rules, the potential for miscommunication despite grammatical correctness, and the unresolved challenges in automating grammar verification.

  • #31
You mean humans could make it easier for computers by adopting grammar with built-in pointers that direct back to the hierarchy that generated them - and then stuck to those rules :-)

I spent a few years with AI types in the early 70s. Speech recognition was one of the best funded areas (all those military intelligence applications!). That was when the gap between AI and real I became clear to me.
 
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  • #32
apeiron said:
You mean humans could make it easier for computers by adopting grammar with built-in pointers that direct back to the hierarchy that generated them - and then stuck to those rules :-)
You mean like Germans?
 
  • #33
apeiron said:
I spent a few years with AI types in the early 70s. Speech recognition was one of the best funded areas (all those military intelligence applications!). That was when the gap between AI and real I became clear to me.

Like I said, the AI types I worked with clearly recognized that AI was not intended to model the human brain. Do you know what "real I" is?
 
  • #34
SW VandeCarr said:
Do you know what "real I" is?

Yes. And that's why I switched to hierarchy theory, dissipative structure and systems science approaches to the questions that interested me.

And the GOFAI dreamers still exist. Check out the enthusiasm for Kurzweil's singularity for instance.
 

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