Is fixing car alignment important?

[nismaratwork]

Glad you're not driving a death machine Greg!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Glad you're not driving a death machine Greg!

right! now if I can only get my brakes fixed!

 

[nismaratwork]

right! now if I can only get my brakes fixed!

[URL]http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0011.gif[/URL]

You know, I think one of the guys on Car Talk did say that he once drove a car without brakes by aggressively downshifting.

That ended badly.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

[URL]http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0011.gif[/URL]

You know, I think one of the guys on Car Talk did say that he once drove a car without brakes by aggressively downshifting.

That ended badly.

what! I downshift my automatic heading to a red light almost always. also going downhill.

 

[nismaratwork]

what! I downshift my automatic heading to a red light almost always. also going downhill.

Thanks again for this DA:


Greg:

 

[Phrak]

Dunno. I trade in the car when the ashtray fills up.

It's not fun when it doubles as a change tray.

 

[nismaratwork]

It's not fun when it doubles as a change tray.

Better than a candy dish...

 

[sherlock ohms]

hi all, just thought you might like to know the reason for the difference in wheel alignment prices. There are a myriad of different suspension systems, with a variety of adjustment methods, including an absence of adjustment facility..(i.e. no camber adjustment on many FWD vehicles.). In this scenario it may be necessary to fit eccentric bolts, which requires drilling of struts etc.. at the other extreme, older vehicles utilise shims..and i can assure you that can be a royal PITA..
having said that, there are always the total ripoff merchants too..

 

[mugaliens]

Here's an anomaly for you all:

The right front tire (less than 10,000 miles) on my truck shows serious signs of being towed out, but the caster, camber, and tow as measured on two completely different systems show it to be close to the center of specs.

The only issue I've had was with a warped rotor. That, however, would have caused wear on only a portion of the tire, and in any regard, I replaced the rotors several months ago, and she's glided to a stop like a baby ever since.

Addendum: I put the studded tires on at the same time I replaced the warped rotor. The studs show no sign of abnormal wear. Only the summer tires show that. They're kept on different wheels, but the wheels measure true (round), so I'm at a loss as to what might be causing this. No abnormal wear on the studded tires.

 

[Proton Soup]

Here's an anomaly for you all:

The right front tire (less than 10,000 miles) on my truck shows serious signs of being towed out, but the caster, camber, and tow as measured on two completely different systems show it to be close to the center of specs.

The only issue I've had was with a warped rotor. That, however, would have caused wear on only a portion of the tire, and in any regard, I replaced the rotors several months ago, and she's glided to a stop like a baby ever since.

Addendum: I put the studded tires on at the same time I replaced the warped rotor. The studs show no sign of abnormal wear. Only the summer tires show that. They're kept on different wheels, but the wheels measure true (round), so I'm at a loss as to what might be causing this. No abnormal wear on the studded tires.

if you have been going to an alignment shop, maybe try a real mechanic. my experience was the alignment guys couldn't even adjust the steering wheel center after i explained how to do it.

anyhoo, maybe some suspension part is wearing out...

 

[sherlock ohms]

Here's an anomaly for you all:

The right front tire (less than 10,000 miles) on my truck shows serious signs of being towed out, but the caster, camber, and tow as measured on two completely different systems show it to be close to the center of specs.

The only issue I've had was with a warped rotor. That, however, would have caused wear on only a portion of the tire, and in any regard, I replaced the rotors several months ago, and she's glided to a stop like a baby ever since.

Addendum: I put the studded tires on at the same time I replaced the warped rotor. The studs show no sign of abnormal wear. Only the summer tires show that. They're kept on different wheels, but the wheels measure true (round), so I'm at a loss as to what might be causing this. No abnormal wear on the studded tires.

Incorrect toe adjustment will cause (un)equal wear on both tires. I would hazard a guess that a ball joint is worn, which escapes the attention of many technicians. The worn component allows undesired movement when driving, but when stopped it finds its natural centre, giving a reading within tolerance.

Another possibility is the "U-turn" effect, which causes the outer edge of the nearside tire to wear prematurely.

 

[nismaratwork]

Incorrect toe adjustment will cause (un)equal wear on both tires. I would hazard a guess that a ball joint is worn, which escapes the attention of many technicians. The worn component allows undesired movement when driving, but when stopped it finds its natural centre, giving a reading within tolerance.

Another possibility is the "U-turn" effect, which causes the outer edge of the nearside tire to wear prematurely.

The ball joint is what I was thinking, based only on listening to every episdoe of Car-Talk since... wow... '97?...

Anyway, that's the bit that let's your wheel fly off if it's goes badly...

BUT... I have a hard time believing that mug would overlook that.

 

[sherlock ohms]

Happens all too often. A lot of tire fitters/aligners simply do not understand weight paths. A vehicle may be jacked off the ground to inspect component wear, but doing so loads said component and no movement is detected. Were one to raise the vehicle from the control arm (wishbone), the wear would be very obvious.. but on other suspension systems this method would disguise the wear. Another factor is tolerance..many fail to see the difference between a load bearing and a locating joint.
Could you elaborate on the wear pattern?. worn inner/outer shoulder only, or gradual increased wear across the tread face? Feathered or scalloped?

 

[nismaratwork]

Happens all too often. A lot of tire fitters/aligners simply do not understand weight paths. A vehicle may be jacked off the ground to inspect component wear, but doing so loads said component and no movement is detected. Were one to raise the vehicle from the control arm (wishbone), the wear would be very obvious.. but on other suspension systems this method would disguise the wear. Another factor is tolerance..many fail to see the difference between a load bearing and a locating joint.

:

Well, welcome to PF Mechanic Holmes! I mean that by the way, welcome, and thank you for the very enlightening posts.

 

[Loren Booda]

When buying new tires, is a four-wheel replacement and alignment recommended?

What is the approximate variation of gas milage given tire pressure deviation from normal?

What is the best method for rotating tires: front-to-back, or side-to-side?

 

[JaredJames]

When you get new tyres fitted, they can't be aligned straight away (although it doesn't stop places doing it).

It's been a few years since I worked in a garage changing tyres over the summer holidays but I'm sure it's something to do with the tread. You have to give it a few weeks to 'settle', or something along those lines. Otherwise the alignment doesn't do anything.

 

[dlgoff]

When buying new tires, is a four-wheel replacement and alignment recommended?

When you get new tyres fitted, they can't be aligned straight away (although it doesn't stop places doing it).

To maximize your investment of a couple front tires, get them mounted (and balanced), then take the car to an alignment shop. You want the alignment correct before putting mileage on them even if only sightly out of alignment. With the new tread, the car will set a little differently so you want an alignment starting from that point in the tires lifetime.

 

[sherlock ohms]

:

Well, welcome to PF Mechanic Holmes! I mean that by the way, welcome, and thank you for the very enlightening posts.

well, thanks for your welcome and for your thanks, you're welcome.. BTW, I'm actually a pizza oven technician, but i did do a brief stint in auto service and repair..22 years worth..

 

[nismaratwork]

well, thanks for your welcome and for your thanks, you're welcome.. BTW, I'm actually a pizza oven technician, but i did do a brief stint in auto service and repair..22 years worth..

I don't care who you are, or what you do, only the knowledge you have, and the approach you seem to take.

 

[Proton Soup]

When buying new tires, is a four-wheel replacement and alignment recommended?

i would normally go with replacing either the front or back pair. then put the new ones on front since there is where most braking power is generated, and where hydroplaning will have the worst effect. but if you're been rotating, wear should be about even. so replacing 2 at a time is something you do if money is tight.

not all vehicles have 4-wheel alignment. some only align in front. see user manual. if you're getting a pull or funny wear, you might want to do it.

What is the best method for rotating tires: front-to-back, or side-to-side?

iirc, it depends on the type of tires you use, and if i further recall correctly, most now are radial tires and are rotated front to back. but just consult your user manual or the tire manual.

 

[sherlock ohms]

/* lecture..Rule of thumb, best tires to front, better of best to nearside. Solid axle rear suspension will eventually create an even tread wear across the tread face. Crossply and biasply tyres are antiquated. Radial construction is the norm. Alignment immediately following tire replacement is perfectly acceptable, in fact desirable, but the vehicle should have a brief road 'test' to allow the vehicle suspension to settle. Tire pressure is a huge factor in fuel consumption as well as longevity, not to mention wear patterns.. consider these points.. an underinflated tire will show abnormal wear on both inner and outer edges, ..whilst this is occurring the increased rolling resistance will cause the vehicle to 'pull' toward that side, which means the driver is constantly counteracting the effect by steering into (against) the direction of pull, therefore the opposing tyre is subjected to unnecessary friction. (dammit.. I'm "tired" of correcting the tire / tyre spell issue, so bear with me..and i think i made a valid point by mentioning that..)
One other point worth mentioning, assuming a situation in which both tyres were equally incorrectly adjusted..I.E. 1/2" / 13mm toe in per wheel when spec. is 1/8" / 3mm TOTAL (1/16" 1.5mm), the vehicle will still drive in a straight line, even though the tyres are being raped senseless..(obviously an exaggerated situation as the vehicle would be essentially uncontrollable, but it illustrates the point). Same applies for camber. Caster will also cause pulling if a positive/negative situation is present. */lecture

 

[nismaratwork]

/* lecture..Rule of thumb, best tires to front, better of best to nearside. Solid axle rear suspension will eventually create an even tread wear across the tread face. Crossply and biasply tyres are antiquated. Radial construction is the norm. Alignment immediately following tire replacement is perfectly acceptable, in fact desirable, but the vehicle should have a brief road 'test' to allow the vehicle suspension to settle. Tire pressure is a huge factor in fuel consumption as well as longevity, not to mention wear patterns.. consider these points.. an underinflated tire will show abnormal wear on both inner and outer edges, ..whilst this is occurring the increased rolling resistance will cause the vehicle to 'pull' toward that side, which means the driver is constantly counteracting the effect by steering into (against) the direction of pull, therefore the opposing tyre is subjected to unnecessary friction. (dammit.. I'm "tired" of correcting the tire / tyre spell issue, so bear with me..and i think i made a valid point by mentioning that..)
One other point worth mentioning, assuming a situation in which both tyres were equally incorrectly adjusted..I.E. 1/2" / 13mm toe in per wheel when spec. is 1/8" / 3mm TOTAL (1/16" 1.5mm), the vehicle will still drive in a straight line, even though the tyres are being raped senseless..(obviously an exaggerated situation as the vehicle would be essentially uncontrollable, but it illustrates the point). Same applies for camber. Caster will also cause pulling if a positive/negative situation is present. */lecture

You do realize that you just became the resident PF mechanic... right?

 

[sherlock ohms]

lol.. do i get a shiny badge?

 

[nismaratwork]

lol.. do i get a shiny badge?

Not from me, but... actually if you're really helpful and responsible... yeah eventually you do! Literally!